Ancestry of Cherie Blair?

[r***@btinternet.com]

Having "done a job", so to speak, on Tony Blair for my Reach For The Stars Blog
and traced his descent from an 18th century smuggler and supplier of goods to
the slave trade on the Isle of Man, I thought I'd take a look at his missus.

Now here's a curious thing.....there are multiple references on the internet
claiming that Cherie Booth, as she was born in 1954, is a descendant of
ALGERNON SYDNEY BOOTH who was an uncle of John Wilkes Booth (1838-1865), the
man who assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Mrs Blair's alleged links to the famous
Booth family of actors, of which JWB was a member, who became prominent in
America are mentioned on a number of websites. Indeed, there is quite a lot
about them online.

But can I find the evidence? No, so far I cannot! I cannot find a documented
family tree that shows the precise descent of Cherie Booth, nor has my own
online research yet produced the link.

Reversing my normal methodology, I've traced forward from RICHARD BOOTH,
Cherie's alleged 4x-great-grandfather, at FamilySearch. He was born in London
about 1755 and married JANE GAME. They had at least two sons, Junius Brutus
Booth (1796-1852) who became one of the famous acting famil,y and the aforesaid
Algernon Sydney Booth (b about 1794) from whom Cherie Booth is claimed to be
descended. Junius Brutus was the father of Lincoln's assassin, while the line
from Algernon appears to go through a John Booth to a Philip Booth and finally
to a Norman Booth who was born in 1883 at Westhoughton, Bolton, Lancashire. I
found his birth and baptism on the Lancashire OPC website, son of Philip and
Parthenia, and the fact of Phillip Booth's wife having an unusual name (she was
Parthenia Thornley when they married in 1882) obviously made it somewhat easier
to find them. Norman Booth is found in the censuses of 1891 and 1901 in
Lancashire and my initial assumption was that he must have been either the
father or grandfather of Cherie's barking mad dad, the actor Tony Booth, who
was born in the final quarter of 1931 at West Derby, a Liverpool registration
district, as Antony George Booth.

However, from the GRO indexes, I think Tony Booth's father was George Henry
Booth, born 1907 at West Derby, died Liverpool South 1968 aged 61. Tony's
mother's maiden surname was Thompson and I have the marriage at West Derby in
the 3rd quarter of 1930 of George H Booth and Mary V Thompson. A number of
websites show Tony Booth's mother as being called Vera and a Mary Vera Booth
died at Liverpool in 1987.

Now here's the puzzle! I've tried to link George Henry Booth to Norman Booth
but I can't because 1) there's no marriage that I can find for Norman Booth in
Lancashire at the right time; 2) I can't find a Norman in the 1911 census with
a son George; 3) I have Norman Booth sailing with his mother Parthenia and two
sisters on a ship called the Parisian from Liverpool to Montreal in 1903.
FamilySearch has Philip Booth (1851-1929), Parthenia Booth (1862-1950) and
Norman Booth (1885 [sic, that should be 1883] - 1935) all dying in Culver City,
California. Unfortunately, these are all names and dates from Ancestral File,
so who knows?

Clearly, if I am to pursue this further I shall have to get the birth
certificate of Tony Booth and the marriage certificate of his parents. However,
I thought I'd post this somewhat lengthy message on the off-chance that
somebody might just have looked at Cherie's ancestry and perhaps found the link
I haven't managed to find so far? It's odd that a number of websites claim that
Cherie is descended from Algernon Sydney Booth but nowhere can I find a
documented tree showing the precise links. Frankly, I can't help wondering
whether this story of the link to John Wilkes Booth was an invention by Mad
Tony in his autobiography! I actually serialised his memoirs years ago in a
certain Sunday newspaper but it's so long ago I can't now recall.

--
Roy Stockdill
Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer
Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/
Reach For The Stars blog: roystockdillgenealogy.com

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."
OSCAR WILDE

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 19:16:01 +0100, ***@btinternet.com wrote:

>Having "done a job", so to speak, on Tony Blair for my Reach For The Stars Blog
>and traced his descent from an 18th century smuggler and supplier of goods to
>the slave trade on the Isle of Man, I thought I'd take a look at his missus.

Ah, so his apology for the slave trade was not completely pointless.


--
Steve Hayes
Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/
http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

[Renia]

On 15/04/2014 19:16, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
> Having "done a job", so to speak, on Tony Blair for my Reach For The
> Stars Blog and traced his descent from an 18th century smuggler and
> supplier of goods to the slave trade on the Isle of Man, I thought
> I'd take a look at his missus.
>
> Now here's a curious thing.....there are multiple references on the
> internet claiming that Cherie Booth, as she was born in 1954, is a
> descendant of ALGERNON SYDNEY BOOTH who was an uncle of John Wilkes
> Booth (1838-1865), the man who assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Mrs
> Blair's alleged links to the famous Booth family of actors, of which
> JWB was a member, who became prominent in America are mentioned on a
> number of websites. Indeed, there is quite a lot about them online.
>
> But can I find the evidence? No, so far I cannot! I cannot find a
> documented family tree that shows the precise descent of Cherie
> Booth, nor has my own online research yet produced the link.

It appears Algernon Sydney Booth died in 1803 and if he was born in
1798, then he was most awfully young when he had his first child.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/booth/messages/931.html
http://english.turkcebilgi.com/John+Wilkes+Booth

The various web sites do not name Tony Booth's father at all. The only
information given about him is that he was a merchant seaman in WWII.
Cherie was brought up by her Catholic grandmother, Vera Booth, with no
mention of her grandfather. This implies the grandparents either
separated, divorced, or that grandfather died while Cherie was young,
and this is presuming Tony's parents were ever married.

A Mary Vera Booth died in 1987 in the Liverpool area, aged 83 (bc 1903).
Another Mary Vera Booth died in the Stockport area in 1979 aged 75 (bc
1913). And there are other contenders in the Cheshire and Lancashire area.

A Mary Vera K Thompson was born in 1903 in the West Derby area, who is
possibly the Mary V Thompson who married George H Booth in West Derby in
1930, shortly before Tony Booths birth in the same area.

Finding Vera or Mary Thompson in the census is a laborious job,
particularly now Ancestry and FindMyPast have tinkered with their search
and results facilities.

But the most likely of 2 Marys and 1 Vera, born about 1903 in Liverpool,
is Mary, daughter of George and Margaret.

In 1911, George Thompson was a dock labourer living at 101 Hankin
Street, Liverpool, then aged 35 and married 17 years to Margaret,
;probably Margaret McEvoy, then also aged 35 and born in Liverpool. They
had two children, Mary aged 8 and Owen aged 3. Their marriage was
registered in Liverpool in the Dec qr 1896.

Margaret was living at 6 Court House, Dalrymple Street in Liverpool in
1891, then aged 16, with her siblings, Mary A (24), Elizabeth (20,
helper in paper warehouse), Bridget (14) and John (10), all of whom were
born in Liverpool. Their mother, Mary, was 47 and born in Ireland.
Their father was owen McEvoy, age 55 and born in County Down, Ireland.
He was a dock labourer.

The computations of George Booths in Lancashire and Yorkshire are
endless, but I'm still working on that.

[r***@btinternet.com]

From: Renia <***@otenet.gr>

> It appears Algernon Sydney Booth died in 1803 and if he was born in
> 1798, then he was most awfully young when he had his first child.
> http://genforum.genealogy.com/booth/messages/931.html
> http://english.turkcebilgi.com/John+Wilkes+Booth
>
> The various web sites do not name Tony Booth's father at all. The only
> information given about him is that he was a merchant seaman in WWII.
> Cherie was brought up by her Catholic grandmother, Vera Booth, with no
> mention of her grandfather. This implies the grandparents either
> separated, divorced, or that grandfather died while Cherie was young,
> and this is presuming Tony's parents were ever married.
>
> A Mary Vera Booth died in 1987 in the Liverpool area, aged 83 (bc 1903).
> Another Mary Vera Booth died in the Stockport area in 1979 aged 75 (bc
> 1913). And there are other contenders in the Cheshire and Lancashire area.
>
> A Mary Vera K Thompson was born in 1903 in the West Derby area, who is
> possibly the Mary V Thompson who married George H Booth in West Derby in
> 1930, shortly before Tony Booths birth in the same area.
>
> Finding Vera or Mary Thompson in the census is a laborious job,
> particularly now Ancestry and FindMyPast have tinkered with their search
> and results facilities.
>
> But the most likely of 2 Marys and 1 Vera, born about 1903 in Liverpool,
> is Mary, daughter of George and Margaret.
>
> In 1911, George Thompson was a dock labourer living at 101 Hankin
> Street, Liverpool, then aged 35 and married 17 years to Margaret,
> ;probably Margaret McEvoy, then also aged 35 and born in Liverpool. They
> had two children, Mary aged 8 and Owen aged 3. Their marriage was
> registered in Liverpool in the Dec qr 1896.
>
> Margaret was living at 6 Court House, Dalrymple Street in Liverpool in
> 1891, then aged 16, with her siblings, Mary A (24), Elizabeth (20,
> helper in paper warehouse), Bridget (14) and John (10), all of whom were
> born in Liverpool. Their mother, Mary, was 47 and born in Ireland.
> Their father was owen McEvoy, age 55 and born in County Down, Ireland.
> He was a dock labourer.
>
> The computations of George Booths in Lancashire and Yorkshire are
> endless, but I'm still working on that.>

Renia - thank you, yes I have seen that death of Algernon Sydney Booth aged 5
at FamilySearch. However, the site also appears to suggest that there was
ANOTHER child of the same name who survived, married a Jane Doe (though I can
find no other record of this) and had a son called John Booth who in turn had a
number of sons, all in Lancashire. Certainly, I have found a John Booth in the
censuses in Lancashire who did indeed having a number of sons including a
Philip, but whether he's the right one or not I couldn't say. Philip had one
son called Norman (shown at FamilySearch if you follow the line there) but, as
i wrote yesterday, he appears to have gone to Canada in 1903 with his mother
and two sisters and does not appear in the 1911 census here.

The problem is that all the information at FamilySearch comes not from
extracted records but from "Contributed genealogies" from either Ancestral File
of the Pedigree Resource File - and we all know how accurate those can be,
don't we? (!). The information re the descendants of Junius Brutus Booth,
including of course his grandson John Wilkes Booth, the assassin of Abraham
Lincoln, appears to be reasonably well backed up and documented. However,
whether there actually was a brother who survived call Algernon Sydney Booth,
claimed to be Cherie Blair's ancestor, is highly questionable.

I have gone down the same routes as you in endeavouring to find online the
parents of Cherie's father, Tony Booth, and agree with your findings. I may get
Tony's birth certificate and the marriage certificate for George H and Mary V
Thompson in 1930, though I am beginning somewhat to go off the idea in view of
the other problems. If anything, it just goes to show you should never believe
online genealogical claims unless you can actually prove them yourself.

I am now wondering if this claim that Cherie and her father are somehow related
to John Wilkes Booth is something that somebody, somewhere claimed at some
time, that it got picked up and repeated a number times (including in her
Wikipedia entry) and became established "fact"? I know full well from my many
years in newspapers how certain things become what we used to call "enshrined
in library cuttings" and were trotted out ad nauseum by writers too lazy to
check the actual facts!

--
Roy Stockdill
Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer
Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/
Reach For The Stars blog: roystockdillgenealogy.com

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."
OSCAR WILDE

[Renia]

On 16/04/2014 14:00, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
> From: Renia <***@otenet.gr>
>

>
> Renia - thank you, yes I have seen that death of Algernon Sydney Booth aged 5
> at FamilySearch. However, the site also appears to suggest that there was
> ANOTHER child of the same name who survived, married a Jane Doe (though I can

Jane Doe, like John Doe, an Americanism for someone without a name!


> find no other record of this) and had a son called John Booth who in turn had a
> number of sons, all in Lancashire. Certainly, I have found a John Booth in the
> censuses in Lancashire who did indeed having a number of sons including a
> Philip, but whether he's the right one or not I couldn't say. Philip had one
> son called Norman (shown at FamilySearch if you follow the line there) but, as
> i wrote yesterday, he appears to have gone to Canada in 1903 with his mother
> and two sisters and does not appear in the 1911 census here.

I was interested to note a Junius Brutus Booth, aged 9, living in
Sandbach, Cheshire in 1851.

Census 1851 Sandbach Cheshire
John Walker 25
Margaret Walker 26
lodgers:
Allen Booth Cordwainer b Liverpool 46
Elizabeth Booth 45
Junius Brutus Booth b Manchester 9
Lucretia Booth 7
Allen A Booth 3

Birth registered 1841, Manchester.

He appears on later censuses:
Census 1871 Liverpool
Junius Brutus Booth, iron turner age 29 born Manchester, kids Allen,
Elizabeth, Alice

1881 & 1891 a millwright with daus Elizabeth, Alice, Margaret & Bennett
stepkids

1901 workhouse, ex engineer

But earlier than this:

Richard Junius Booth born 21 Jan 1819 bapt 2 Sep 1821 St Bride Fleet St,
London,London, son of Janius Brutus Booth, Marie Christine Adelaide

Junius Booth married Adelaide Delannoy 89 May 1815 at Bloomsbury, St
George by banns

Richard Junius Booth died Clerkenwell age 49 in Dec qr 1868. Died 14
Dec 1868, of 10 St John's Sq, Clerkenwell, admin under £20 to John
Baptist Booth, gent, of 10 St John's Sq, son and only next of kin.

Junius Booth died Tendring Essex in Dec qr 1912 age 47. Died 7 Dec 1912
of 19 Tower Street, Brightlingsea, admin with will to Richard Bond
Turner, glassware merchant. £150.

John Booth buried 4th Oct 1787 Clerkenwell, of St John's Square. Junius
Brutus Booth buried there 7th Sept 1787, of St John's Square.

So these Booths were of St John's Square, Clerkenwell for at least 100
years.

http://surrattmuseum.org/su_jwb.html

This site says that Richard Booth, son of the above Junius, left the US,
and went back to 10 St John's Sq.

>
> The problem is that all the information at FamilySearch comes not from
> extracted records but from "Contributed genealogies" from either Ancestral File
> of the Pedigree Resource File - and we all know how accurate those can be,
> don't we? (!). The information re the descendants of Junius Brutus Booth,
> including of course his grandson John Wilkes Booth, the assassin of Abraham
> Lincoln, appears to be reasonably well backed up and documented. However,
> whether there actually was a brother who survived call Algernon Sydney Booth,
> claimed to be Cherie Blair's ancestor, is highly questionable.
>
> I have gone down the same routes as you in endeavouring to find online the
> parents of Cherie's father, Tony Booth, and agree with your findings. I may get
> Tony's birth certificate and the marriage certificate for George H and Mary V
> Thompson in 1930, though I am beginning somewhat to go off the idea in view of
> the other problems. If anything, it just goes to show you should never believe
> online genealogical claims unless you can actually prove them yourself.
>
> I am now wondering if this claim that Cherie and her father are somehow related
> to John Wilkes Booth is something that somebody, somewhere claimed at some
> time, that it got picked up and repeated a number times (including in her
> Wikipedia entry) and became established "fact"? I know full well from my many
> years in newspapers how certain things become what we used to call "enshrined
> in library cuttings" and were trotted out ad nauseum by writers too lazy to
> check the actual facts!

Indeed, the internet is a hotbed of myths which become facts.

[Charles Ellson]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 15:12:57 +0100, Renia <***@otenet.gr> wrote:

>On 16/04/2014 14:00, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
>> From: Renia <***@otenet.gr>
>>
>
>>
>> Renia - thank you, yes I have seen that death of Algernon Sydney Booth aged 5
>> at FamilySearch. However, the site also appears to suggest that there was
>> ANOTHER child of the same name who survived, married a Jane Doe (though I can
>
>Jane Doe, like John Doe, an Americanism for someone without a name!
>
The origins of the Doe family are IMU attributable to 14th century
English legal practices. e.g. :-
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/John_Doe.html
<snip>

[Renia]

It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809 and
1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
obviously nothing new.)

[Roger Mills]

On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809 and
> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
> obviously nothing new.)

Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
compulsory civil registration.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

[Graeme Wall]

On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809 and
>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
>> obviously nothing new.)
>
> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
> compulsory civil registration.

Would 13 have been considered a child in 1809?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[Renia]

On 17/04/2014 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809 and
>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
>>> obviously nothing new.)
>>
>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
>> compulsory civil registration.
>
> Would 13 have been considered a child in 1809?

The father, Ricard Booth, a lawyer, referred to his son as "a child"
incapable of such an act.

But I was thinking more of the child parents revealed this week, aged 12
and 13, and the new grandfather is "proud" of his daughter. The new
grandmother is only 27.

[Graeme Wall]

On 17/04/2014 09:51, Renia wrote:
> On 17/04/2014 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809
>>>> and
>>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
>>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
>>>> obviously nothing new.)
>>>
>>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
>>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
>>> compulsory civil registration.
>>
>> Would 13 have been considered a child in 1809?
>
> The father, Ricard Booth, a lawyer, referred to his son as "a child"
> incapable of such an act.

I was wondering what the legal position was then. What was the age of
the mother?

>
> But I was thinking more of the child parents revealed this week, aged 12
> and 13, and the new grandfather is "proud" of his daughter. The new
> grandmother is only 27.

Yes, I saw that. Obviously runs in the family.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[Renia]

On 17/04/2014 10:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 17/04/2014 09:51, Renia wrote:
>> On 17/04/2014 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>>>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>>>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809
>>>>> and
>>>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>>>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>>>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought,
>>>>> especially if
>>>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
>>>>> obviously nothing new.)
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
>>>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
>>>> compulsory civil registration.
>>>
>>> Would 13 have been considered a child in 1809?
>>
>> The father, Ricard Booth, a lawyer, referred to his son as "a child"
>> incapable of such an act.
>
> I was wondering what the legal position was then. What was the age of
> the mother?

The mother and child, if they existed, are unknown.

>> But I was thinking more of the child parents revealed this week, aged 12
>> and 13, and the new grandfather is "proud" of his daughter. The new
>> grandmother is only 27.
>
> Yes, I saw that. Obviously runs in the family.
>

[Graeme Wall]

On 17/04/2014 10:51, Renia wrote:
>
>
> On 17/04/2014 10:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 17/04/2014 09:51, Renia wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2014 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>>>>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>>>>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>>>>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>>>>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>>>>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought,
>>>>>> especially if
>>>>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in
>>>>>> childhood is
>>>>>> obviously nothing new.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
>>>>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
>>>>> compulsory civil registration.
>>>>
>>>> Would 13 have been considered a child in 1809?
>>>
>>> The father, Ricard Booth, a lawyer, referred to his son as "a child"
>>> incapable of such an act.
>>
>> I was wondering what the legal position was then. What was the age of
>> the mother?
>
> The mother and child, if they existed, are unknown.

OK.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <8yN3v.506$***@fx32.fr7>, Graeme Wall
<***@greywall.demon.co.uk> writes:
>On 17/04/2014 10:51, Renia wrote:
>> On 17/04/2014 10:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2014 09:51, Renia wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2014 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>>>>>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
[]
>>>>>>
[]
>>>>>
[]
>>>>
[]
>>>
[]
>>
[]
>
>OK.
>
(-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

TV and radio presenters are just like many people, except they tend to wear
make-up all the time. Especially the radio presenters. - Eddie Mair, in Radio
Times 25-31 August 2012

[Richard Smith]

On 17/04/14 10:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 17/04/2014 09:51, Renia wrote:
>> On 17/04/2014 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>>>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>>>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809
>>>>> and
>>>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>>>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>>>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
>>>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
>>>>> obviously nothing new.)
>>>>
>>>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
>>>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
>>>> compulsory civil registration.
>>>
>>> Would 13 have been considered a child in 1809?
>>
>> The father, Ricard Booth, a lawyer, referred to his son as "a child"
>> incapable of such an act.
>
> I was wondering what the legal position was then. What was the age of
> the mother?

I've lost track of whether this happened in England or America. But
assuming it happened in England, the age of consent for a girl was
effectively 12 (though I don't think the term "age of consent" was used
at that time). There was no equivalent age of consent for boys.

Richard

[Graeme Wall]

On 17/04/2014 12:40, Richard Smith wrote:
> On 17/04/14 10:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 17/04/2014 09:51, Renia wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2014 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>>>>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>>>>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>>>>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>>>>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>>>>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought,
>>>>>> especially if
>>>>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in
>>>>>> childhood is
>>>>>> obviously nothing new.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
>>>>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
>>>>> compulsory civil registration.
>>>>
>>>> Would 13 have been considered a child in 1809?
>>>
>>> The father, Ricard Booth, a lawyer, referred to his son as "a child"
>>> incapable of such an act.
>>
>> I was wondering what the legal position was then. What was the age of
>> the mother?
>
> I've lost track of whether this happened in England or America. But
> assuming it happened in England, the age of consent for a girl was
> effectively 12 (though I don't think the term "age of consent" was used
> at that time). There was no equivalent age of consent for boys.
>


Thanks Richard, the events took place in England. If you have the
spare time, have a look at the book that Renia linked to, it is
wonderfully over the top. Refers to "Our Hero" and so on.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at <http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail>

[Charles Ellson]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:24:37 +0100, Graeme Wall
<***@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On 17/04/2014 12:40, Richard Smith wrote:
>> On 17/04/14 10:17, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2014 09:51, Renia wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2014 09:26, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>>>>>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>>>>>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>>>>>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>>>>>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>>>>>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought,
>>>>>>> especially if
>>>>>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in
>>>>>>> childhood is
>>>>>>> obviously nothing new.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
>>>>>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
>>>>>> compulsory civil registration.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would 13 have been considered a child in 1809?
>>>>
>>>> The father, Ricard Booth, a lawyer, referred to his son as "a child"
>>>> incapable of such an act.
>>>
>>> I was wondering what the legal position was then. What was the age of
>>> the mother?
>>
>> I've lost track of whether this happened in England or America. But
>> assuming it happened in England, the age of consent for a girl was
>> effectively 12 (though I don't think the term "age of consent" was used
>> at that time). There was no equivalent age of consent for boys.
>>
14 years for boys IIRC, based on English Common Law deeming that those
were the ages of puberty. Those ages remained in use WRT marriage
until 1929. That ignores the complications associated with child
marriage which in earlier times could occur at lower ages.
The age of majority OTOH is a different legal concept so the word
"child" could mean different things at different times.

>
>
>Thanks Richard, the events took place in England. If you have the
>spare time, have a look at the book that Renia linked to, it is
>wonderfully over the top. Refers to "Our Hero" and so on.

[Renia]

On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809 and
>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
>> obviously nothing new.)
>
> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
> compulsory civil registration.

This little book says Richard "presented his child to the justices":

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DjVAAAAAYAAJ&q=Allen#v=onepage&q=Allen&f=false

Often, in these cases, the young mother alludes to the child's father in
her choice of name.

Personally, I'm interested in a Junius Brutus Booth, born in Manchester
about 1842, living in Liverpool in 1851, the son of Allen Booth,
apparently born Liverpool about 1806, though I can find no trace of him.
Allen Booth died in Chorlton in 1884, but this Junius seems to have had
only 3 daughters.

[r***@btinternet.com]

From: Renia <***@otenet.gr>

> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
> > On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
> >> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
> >> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809 and
> >> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
> >> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
> >> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
> >> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
> >> obviously nothing new.)
> >
> > Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
> > probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
> > compulsory civil registration.
>
> This little book says Richard "presented his child to the justices":
>
> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DjVAAAAAYAAJ&q=Allen#v=onepage&q=Allen&f=fa
> lse
>
> Often, in these cases, the young mother alludes to the child's father in
> her choice of name.
>
> Personally, I'm interested in a Junius Brutus Booth, born in Manchester
> about 1842, living in Liverpool in 1851, the son of Allen Booth,
> apparently born Liverpool about 1806, though I can find no trace of him.
> Allen Booth died in Chorlton in 1884, but this Junius seems to have had
> only 3 daughters.>

Renia

What is your interest in the Junius Brutus Booth born in Manchester 1842,
because I've been doing some work on him only this morning! I wondered whether
he might somehow be connected to the Booths I am interested in re Cherie Blair
and the Booth family that produce Abraham Lincoln's assassin etc. However, I
can find no apparent connection and came to the conclusion that the forenames
were probably just a coincidence. There were probably other families who were
attracted to them because of the Julius Caesar connection.

Your Junius Brutus Booth married at Toxteth Park in 1884 to Helen Bennett, but
if you look at the 1891 census you will see as well as the three daughters a
son called John Bennett Booth, aged 3, born Liverpool. Helen died soon
afterwards and in the 1901 census Junius was in a workhouse. He died in the
last quarter of that year.


--
Roy Stockdill
Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer
Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/
Reach For The Stars blog: roystockdillgenealogy.com

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."
OSCAR WILDE

[Renia]

On 17/04/2014 14:06, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
> From: Renia <***@otenet.gr>
>
>> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
>>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
>>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809 and
>>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
>>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
>>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
>>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
>>>> obviously nothing new.)
>>>
>>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
>>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
>>> compulsory civil registration.
>>
>> This little book says Richard "presented his child to the justices":
>>
>> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DjVAAAAAYAAJ&q=Allen#v=onepage&q=Allen&f=fa
>> lse
>>
>> Often, in these cases, the young mother alludes to the child's father in
>> her choice of name.
>>
>> Personally, I'm interested in a Junius Brutus Booth, born in Manchester
>> about 1842, living in Liverpool in 1851, the son of Allen Booth,
>> apparently born Liverpool about 1806, though I can find no trace of him.
>> Allen Booth died in Chorlton in 1884, but this Junius seems to have had
>> only 3 daughters.>
>
> Renia
>
> What is your interest in the Junius Brutus Booth born in Manchester 1842,
> because I've been doing some work on him only this morning! I wondered whether
> he might somehow be connected to the Booths I am interested in re Cherie Blair
> and the Booth family that produce Abraham Lincoln's assassin etc. However, I
> can find no apparent connection and came to the conclusion that the forenames
> were probably just a coincidence. There were probably other families who were
> attracted to them because of the Julius Caesar connection.
>
> Your Junius Brutus Booth married at Toxteth Park in 1884 to Helen Bennett, but
> if you look at the 1891 census you will see as well as the three daughters a
> son called John Bennett Booth, aged 3, born Liverpool. Helen died soon
> afterwards and in the 1901 census Junius was in a workhouse. He died in the
> last quarter of that year.

I posted a lot of info about Junius Brutus Booth here a couple of days
ago, after your declaration of interest into the Booth pedigree.

I think Helen Bennett was his second wife (vague recollection of
assorted censuses).

His name may be a coincidence, but it seems odd that a shoemaker from
Liverpool would name his son after a famous actor from London. I've come
across assorted people being given the names of the famous: Josiah
Wedgwood Palliser, for example.

My vague, outside theory, is that his father, Allen Booth, born
Liverpool in about 1806, may have been a couple of years younger, and
might be the bastard son born to the teenage Junius in his ashamed
mother's home-town of Liverpool, paid off by the Booth family in London.
Perhaps her surname was Allen? So far, I have only found one child to
this Allen Booth, but perhaps there were others. His son, Junius, seems
to have had only daughters, but they're all ridiculously hard to find in
the censuses, now the FMP and Ancestry have tinkered around too much. I
note John Bennett Booth. Have you looked further into him?

On the other hand, Richard Junius Booth (died 1868), son of the actor,
is another person of interest. He went to the USA and found his father
had bigamously married and bred another stable of children there.
Richard married Sarah Pearson Ware and had children in Baltimore
(Alphosia, Amele, Delvith and John Baptist), but returned to England.
John Baptist Booth also returned to England, but again, he is difficult
to pinpoint and only seems to have had daughters.

[v***@gmail.com]

On Thursday, 17 April 2014 14:47:59 UTC+1, Renia wrote:
> On 17/04/2014 14:06, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
> > From: Renia <***@otenet.gr>
> >
> >> On 17/04/2014 09:17, Roger Mills wrote:
> >>> On 17/04/2014 02:02, Renia wrote:
> >>>> It appears that the actor, Junius Brutus Booth was accused of getting
> >>>> two girls in the family way when he was 13 and 17 years old (in 1809 and
> >>>> 1813) before he ran away to the theatre. His father, Richard, being a
> >>>> lawyer, sorted things out. But if the stories were true, then then
> >>>> either of the two little Booths could be the link sought, especially if
> >>>> one of them ended up in the Liverpool area. (Parentage in childhood is
> >>>> obviously nothing new.)
> >>>
> >>> Interesting. They may not be all that easy to find though - they
> >>> probably won't have taken the surname 'Booth', and it's way before
> >>> compulsory civil registration.
> >>
> >> This little book says Richard "presented his child to the justices":
> >>
> >> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DjVAAAAAYAAJ&q=Allen#v=onepage&q=Allen&f=fa
> >> lse
> >>
> >> Often, in these cases, the young mother alludes to the child's father in
> >> her choice of name.
> >>
> >> Personally, I'm interested in a Junius Brutus Booth, born in Manchester
> >> about 1842, living in Liverpool in 1851, the son of Allen Booth,
> >> apparently born Liverpool about 1806, though I can find no trace of him.
> >> Allen Booth died in Chorlton in 1884, but this Junius seems to have had
> >> only 3 daughters.>
> >
> > Renia
> >
> > What is your interest in the Junius Brutus Booth born in Manchester 1842,
> > because I've been doing some work on him only this morning! I wondered whether
> > he might somehow be connected to the Booths I am interested in re Cherie Blair
> > and the Booth family that produce Abraham Lincoln's assassin etc. However, I
> > can find no apparent connection and came to the conclusion that the forenames
> > were probably just a coincidence. There were probably other families who were
> > attracted to them because of the Julius Caesar connection.
> >
> > Your Junius Brutus Booth married at Toxteth Park in 1884 to Helen Bennett, but
> > if you look at the 1891 census you will see as well as the three daughters a
> > son called John Bennett Booth, aged 3, born Liverpool. Helen died soon
> > afterwards and in the 1901 census Junius was in a workhouse. He died in the
> > last quarter of that year.
>
> I posted a lot of info about Junius Brutus Booth here a couple of days
> ago, after your declaration of interest into the Booth pedigree.
>
> I think Helen Bennett was his second wife (vague recollection of
> assorted censuses).
>
> His name may be a coincidence, but it seems odd that a shoemaker from
> Liverpool would name his son after a famous actor from London. I've come
> across assorted people being given the names of the famous: Josiah
> Wedgwood Palliser, for example.
>
> My vague, outside theory, is that his father, Allen Booth, born
> Liverpool in about 1806, may have been a couple of years younger, and
> might be the bastard son born to the teenage Junius in his ashamed
> mother's home-town of Liverpool, paid off by the Booth family in London.
> Perhaps her surname was Allen? So far, I have only found one child to
> this Allen Booth, but perhaps there were others. His son, Junius, seems
> to have had only daughters, but they're all ridiculously hard to find in
> the censuses, now the FMP and Ancestry have tinkered around too much. I
> note John Bennett Booth. Have you looked further into him?
>
> On the other hand, Richard Junius Booth (died 1868), son of the actor,
> is another person of interest. He went to the USA and found his father
> had bigamously married and bred another stable of children there.
> Richard married Sarah Pearson Ware and had children in Baltimore
> (Alphosia, Amele, Delvith and John Baptist), but returned to England.
> John Baptist Booth also returned to England, but again, he is difficult
> to pinpoint and only seems to have had daughters.

FYI Junius Brutus Booth b 1841 Manchester has no connection to the Booths of acting & assanation fame. He was son of Allen (born Liverpool c 1806 who's father was John) Junius was first married to Nanny Benson in New York in 1864. My belief is that they left NYC after bearing the backlash from the Lincoln assassination. They returned to Manchester where my Gt Grandfather was born in 1867. Junius then moved to Liverpool having a further 10 (?) children with Nanny. After her passing the married Hellen Bennett & had a further 4 children.

NONE of these children to the best of my knowledge has any connection to either Tony or Cherie Booth!

[Geoff Pearson]

<***@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:***@rootsweb.com...
> From: Renia <***@otenet.gr>
>
>> It appears Algernon Sydney Booth died in 1803 and if he was born in
>> 1798, then he was most awfully young when he had his first child.
>> http://genforum.genealogy.com/booth/messages/931.html
>> http://english.turkcebilgi.com/John+Wilkes+Booth
>>
>> The various web sites do not name Tony Booth's father at all. The only
>> information given about him is that he was a merchant seaman in WWII.
>> Cherie was brought up by her Catholic grandmother, Vera Booth, with no
>> mention of her grandfather. This implies the grandparents either
>> separated, divorced, or that grandfather died while Cherie was young,
>> and this is presuming Tony's parents were ever married.
>>
>> A Mary Vera Booth died in 1987 in the Liverpool area, aged 83 (bc 1903).
>> Another Mary Vera Booth died in the Stockport area in 1979 aged 75 (bc
>> 1913). And there are other contenders in the Cheshire and Lancashire
>> area.
>>
>> A Mary Vera K Thompson was born in 1903 in the West Derby area, who is
>> possibly the Mary V Thompson who married George H Booth in West Derby in
>> 1930, shortly before Tony Booths birth in the same area.
>>
>> Finding Vera or Mary Thompson in the census is a laborious job,
>> particularly now Ancestry and FindMyPast have tinkered with their search
>> and results facilities.
>>
>> But the most likely of 2 Marys and 1 Vera, born about 1903 in Liverpool,
>> is Mary, daughter of George and Margaret.
>>
>> In 1911, George Thompson was a dock labourer living at 101 Hankin
>> Street, Liverpool, then aged 35 and married 17 years to Margaret,
>> ;probably Margaret McEvoy, then also aged 35 and born in Liverpool. They
>> had two children, Mary aged 8 and Owen aged 3. Their marriage was
>> registered in Liverpool in the Dec qr 1896.
>>
>> Margaret was living at 6 Court House, Dalrymple Street in Liverpool in
>> 1891, then aged 16, with her siblings, Mary A (24), Elizabeth (20,
>> helper in paper warehouse), Bridget (14) and John (10), all of whom were
>> born in Liverpool. Their mother, Mary, was 47 and born in Ireland.
>> Their father was owen McEvoy, age 55 and born in County Down, Ireland.
>> He was a dock labourer.
>>
>> The computations of George Booths in Lancashire and Yorkshire are
>> endless, but I'm still working on that.>
>
> Renia - thank you, yes I have seen that death of Algernon Sydney Booth
> aged 5
> at FamilySearch. However, the site also appears to suggest that there was
> ANOTHER child of the same name who survived, married a Jane Doe (though I
> can
> find no other record of this) and had a son called John Booth who in turn
> had a
> number of sons, all in Lancashire. Certainly, I have found a John Booth in
> the
> censuses in Lancashire who did indeed having a number of sons including a
> Philip, but whether he's the right one or not I couldn't say. Philip had
> one
> son called Norman (shown at FamilySearch if you follow the line there)
> but, as
> i wrote yesterday, he appears to have gone to Canada in 1903 with his
> mother
> and two sisters and does not appear in the 1911 census here.
>
> The problem is that all the information at FamilySearch comes not from
> extracted records but from "Contributed genealogies" from either Ancestral
> File
> of the Pedigree Resource File - and we all know how accurate those can be,
> don't we? (!). The information re the descendants of Junius Brutus Booth,
> including of course his grandson John Wilkes Booth, the assassin of
> Abraham
> Lincoln, appears to be reasonably well backed up and documented. However,
> whether there actually was a brother who survived call Algernon Sydney
> Booth,
> claimed to be Cherie Blair's ancestor, is highly questionable.
>
> I have gone down the same routes as you in endeavouring to find online the
> parents of Cherie's father, Tony Booth, and agree with your findings. I
> may get
> Tony's birth certificate and the marriage certificate for George H and
> Mary V
> Thompson in 1930, though I am beginning somewhat to go off the idea in
> view of
> the other problems. If anything, it just goes to show you should never
> believe
> online genealogical claims unless you can actually prove them yourself.
>
> I am now wondering if this claim that Cherie and her father are somehow
> related
> to John Wilkes Booth is something that somebody, somewhere claimed at some
> time, that it got picked up and repeated a number times (including in her
> Wikipedia entry) and became established "fact"? I know full well from my
> many
> years in newspapers how certain things become what we used to call
> "enshrined
> in library cuttings" and were trotted out ad nauseum by writers too lazy
> to
> check the actual facts!
>
> --
> Roy Stockdill
> Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer
> Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/
> Reach For The Stars blog: roystockdillgenealogy.com
>
> "There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
> and that is not being talked about."
> OSCAR WILDE
>
>
>
>

Roy

you could ask the lady herself - I guess you might enjoy her (probably
uninformative) reply which might include a D Notice.

My mother was convinced that her grandfather had been a partner of William
Morris in his cycle shop in James Street in Cowley but they parted company
over new-fangled cars. I can find no proof of anything other than they did
both live in James Street. Morris' many biographies do not record the
partnership of Morris and Bennett. An idle speculation became fact - maybe
Ms Booth's family did the same: Women of Mass Deception.

Geoff



Geoff

[MB]

On 16/04/2014 15:27, Geoff Pearson wrote:
> Roy
>
> you could ask the lady herself - I guess you might enjoy her (probably
> uninformative) reply which might include a D Notice.


Could you afford her fee for reading the letter, never mind what she
would charge for actually replying.

[r***@btinternet.com]

From: "Geoff Pearson" <***@hotmail.com>
> Roy
>
> you could ask the lady herself - I guess you might enjoy her (probably
> uninformative) reply which might include a D Notice.>

I tend to doubt she knows as much about it as I do, Geoff!


--
Roy Stockdill
Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer
Famous family trees blog: http://blog.findmypast.co.uk/tag/roy-stockdill/
Reach For The Stars blog: roystockdillgenealogy.com

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."
OSCAR WILDE

[j***@gmail.com]

As a family member by blood and marriage of the Booth family, we recognize Cherie Booth Blair as a Booth. You have first mistakenly listed JWB as a grandson of Junius Sr, but he is a son. Algernon Sydney passed as a child, but this name continued through family bloodlines. My Great great Grandmother is Jane Booth, sister to Junius Sr. and Aunt to Edwin and John Wilkes Booth. My family also recgonizes the existence of Izola Mills (Booth) DArcy as the unknow wife of JWB and the Mother of Booth daughter Orgaria Booth and possible Father of Harry Jerome Stevenson. My Great Grandfather married off my great Aunt , Cora Mitchell , to Joseph Adrian Booth, a 2 year younger brother of JWB. It is said that Junius Junior had possibly 2 "illegimate " children, JWB may have had at least 1 or 2"illegimate" children, etc. Passing along what is documented is not the same as knowing our family history. Joanne Kline Hulme

[Jenny M Benson]

On 16/04/2014 12:50, Renia wrote:
> Margaret was living at 6 Court House, Dalrymple Street in Liverpool in
> 1891,

6 Court 1 House, to be exact. ie House number 1 within Court number 6
in Dalrymple Street. Can't have been too much fun, 7 people in a tiny 3
room house, but with a bit of luck there might have been TWO communal
lavvies across the Court!

--
Jenny M Benson