Camilla Shand and Peter Shand Kydd

[Will Johnson]

> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd" at his
"home in Bayswater"
> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater as
well

[Renia]

On 15/04/2012 17:58, Will Johnson wrote:
>> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
>> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd" at his
> "home in Bayswater"
>> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater as
> well

Shand, in this instance, is a middle name. Perhaps a Shand married a
Kydd, or perhaps a Shand was a Godparent to a Kydd.

[Ian Goddard]

Renia wrote:
> On 15/04/2012 17:58, Will Johnson wrote:
>>> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
>>> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand
>>> Kydd" at his
>> "home in Bayswater"
>>> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in
>>> Bayswater as
>> well
>
> Shand, in this instance, is a middle name. Perhaps a Shand married a
> Kydd,

FreeBMD has mixed results. There are no explicit references to Shand as
a middle name. However there are 5 births & 2 deaths treating it as a
double-barrelled surname, some with & some without a hyphen. These have
to be searched for separately.

For several births the mother's maiden name is Foy. Which leads to a
marriage, in Islington, Q2 1920:

Kydd Norman S Foy

All in all it looks as if there may be a fair amount in FreeBMD but one
would need to search under Shand Kydd, Shand-Kydd, Shand and Kydd
separately.

--
Ian

The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang
at austonley org uk

[Ian Goddard]

Ian Goddard wrote:

> FreeBMD has mixed results. There are no explicit references to Shand as
> a middle name.

Oops. Should have said there's nothing searching for Shand as an
explicit forename on its own. Possibly there could be something along
the lines of Xxxx Shand.

--
Ian

The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang
at austonley org uk

[Anne Chambers]

Ian Goddard wrote:
> Ian Goddard wrote:
>
>> FreeBMD has mixed results. There are no explicit references to Shand as
>> a middle name.
>
> Oops. Should have said there's nothing searching for Shand as an explicit forename on its own. Possibly there
> could be something along the lines of Xxxx Shand.
>
Searching for * Shand in forenames only gives a couple of Shand Kydds in the 1890s but a surprisoing number
of Shand Others

--
Anne Chambers
South Australia

anne dot chambers at bigpond dot com

[r***@btinternet.com]

From: Renia <***@otenet.gr>

> On 15/04/2012 17:58, Will Johnson wrote:
> >> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
> >> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand
> Kydd" at his "home in Bayswater"
> >> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in
> Bayswater as well
>
> Shand, in this instance, is a middle name. Perhaps a Shand married a
> Kydd, or perhaps a Shand was a Godparent to a Kydd.>

William (Bill) Shand Kydd (born 1937) was - or I should say "is" because a Google search
suggests he's still alive - a younger half-brother to Peter Shand Kydd, who in 1969 married
Frances Viscountess Althorp, the mother of Princess Diana. Frances was very unhappy in
her marriage to Johnny Spencer (Viscount Althorp) and went off with Shand Kydd. That
marriage too ended when Shand Kydd began another affair.

Bill Shand Kydd was a member of the Lord Lucan set and was supposedly the last person to
see Lucan alive when he disappeared after notoriously murdering the family nanny in mistake
for his wife in 1974.

The Shand Kydds were originally a Scottish family and became very wealthy through a
wallpaper manufacturing company.

There may be a connection somewhere back that brought the Shand name into the Kydd
family but, frankly, I haven't the time to go looking for it!

What I DO find rather more interesting is this: there are some historians who believe that
Camilla's maternal grandmother, Sonia Rosemary Keppel (1900-1986) was the illegitimate
daughter of the Prince of Wales, later Edward VII, by one of his numerous mistresses, Mrs
Alice Keppel.

Edward VII was, of course, the great-great-grandfather of Prince Charles. Now, if this were
true it would make Prince Charles and Camilla somewhat more closely related in cousinship
than has been officially suggested in the records and history books!

--
Roy Stockdill
Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer
Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."
OSCAR WILDE

[Geoff Pearson]

"Will Johnson" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
news:c547cda1-681d-4759-8e8f-***@k10g2000pbk.googlegroups.com...
>> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
>> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd"
>> at his
> "home in Bayswater"
>> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater
>> as
> well

From Wikipedia:

Born Camilla Rosemary Shand at King's College Hospital, London,[5][6][7][8]
on 17 July 1947, Shand was raised opposite the Plumpton Racecourse, East
Sussex by her parents, Major Bruce Shand (1917-2006) (a British Army
officer, turned wine merchant, as well as prisoner of war in World War II
who received the Military Cross with Bar) and the Honourable Rosalind Cubitt
(1921-1994,[9] eldest child of Roland Calvert Cubitt, 3rd Baron Ashcombe):
Her siblings are Mark Shand and Annabel Shand Elliot. The maternal
great-grandmother of the Shand siblings (known as the Sexy Shands), Alice
Keppel, formerly Alice Frederica Edmonstone, was the royal mistress of King
Edward VII from 1898 to 1910. Shand was christened 1 November 1947 at Firle
Church, Sussex. Her godparents were the Hon. Harry Cubitt (her maternal
uncle), Major Neil Speke, Mrs Heathcoat Amory, Mrs Lombard Hobson, and Miss
Vivien Mosley.

I think Shand Kydd were also wallpaper manufacturers. And then there is
Frances Shand who was Diana Spencer's something or other.

[r***@btinternet.com]

From: "Geoff Pearson" <***@hotmail.com>

> "Will Johnson" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:c547cda1-681d-4759-8e8f-***@k10g2000pbk.googlegroups.c
> om...
> >> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
> >> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand
> Kydd"
> >> at his
> > "home in Bayswater"
> >> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in
> Bayswater
> >> as
> > well
>
> >From Wikipedia:
>
> Born Camilla Rosemary Shand at King's College Hospital,
> London,[5][6][7][8] on 17 July 1947, Shand was raised opposite the Plumpton Racecourse,
> East Sussex by her parents, Major Bruce Shand (1917-2006) (a British Army
> officer, turned wine merchant, as well as prisoner of war in World
> War II who received the Military Cross with Bar) and the Honourable
> Rosalind Cubitt (1921-1994,[9] eldest child of Roland Calvert Cubitt, 3rd Baron
> Ashcombe):
> Her siblings are Mark Shand and Annabel Shand Elliot. The maternal
> great-grandmother of the Shand siblings (known as the Sexy Shands),
> Alice Keppel, formerly Alice Frederica Edmonstone, was the royal mistress
> of King Edward VII from 1898 to 1910.>

And as I have mentioned in another message, there are some historians who believe that
Camilla's grandmother, Sonia Rosemary Keppel, was actually the illegitimate daughter of
Edward VII when he was Prince of Wales and that Mrs Alice Keppel's husband, George
Keppel, wasn't Sonia's father but a cuckold.

If this were to be correct, it would make Prince Charles and Camilla much more closely
related as cousins than is officially recorded!

> I think Shand Kydd were also wallpaper manufacturers. And then
> there is Frances Shand who was Diana Spencer's something or other. >

Frances, formerly the Countess of Althorp, was Diana's mother. She had an affair with Peter
Shand Kydd while being unhappily married to Johnny Spencer and married Shand Kydd in
1969.

Oh, the larks these upper class types get up to! Still, I expect they can afford it.

--
Roy Stockdill
Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer
Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History: www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about,
and that is not being talked about."
OSCAR WILDE

[Peter Haizelden]

On Apr 15, 5:58 pm, Will Johnson <***@aol.com> wrote:
> > What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
> > I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd" at his
>
> "home in Bayswater"> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater as
>
> well

Derives from the parents of William Kydd - who later used his mother's
maiden name as an additional forename. He was born 12 July 1864 at
Arbroath, the son of John Kydd and Mary Shand. The father was a
shoemaker at "Fairies" — the local name for the factory of Samuel
Fairweather & Son. Shand Kydd established the wallpaper firm in London
in 1891.

[Renia]

On 16/04/2012 11:53, Peter Haizelden wrote:
> On Apr 15, 5:58 pm, Will Johnson<***@aol.com> wrote:
>>> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
>>> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd" at his
>>
>> "home in Bayswater"> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater as
>>
>> well
>
> Derives from the parents of William Kydd - who later used his mother's
> maiden name as an additional forename. He was born 12 July 1864 at
> Arbroath, the son of John Kydd and Mary Shand. The father was a
> shoemaker at "Fairies" — the local name for the factory of Samuel
> Fairweather& Son. Shand Kydd established the wallpaper firm in London
> in 1891.

In the 1891 census, William Shand Kydd of Abroath in Scotland aged 26
was lodging in St Pancras, a humble decorator.

[Peter Haizelden]

On Apr 16, 12:46 pm, Renia <***@otenet.gr> wrote:
> On 16/04/2012 11:53, Peter Haizelden wrote:
>
> > On Apr 15, 5:58 pm, Will Johnson<***@aol.com>  wrote:
> >>> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
> >>> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd" at his
>
> >> "home in Bayswater">  And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater as
>
> >> well
>
> > Derives from the parents of William Kydd - who later used his mother's
> > maiden name as an additional forename. He was born 12 July 1864 at
> > Arbroath, the son of John Kydd and Mary Shand. The father was a
> > shoemaker at "Fairies" — the local name for the factory of Samuel
> > Fairweather&  Son. Shand Kydd established the wallpaper firm in London
> > in 1891.
>
> In the 1891 census, William Shand Kydd of Abroath in Scotland aged 26
> was lodging in St Pancras, a humble decorator.

He blossomed later in the year :)

PH

[CWatters]

On 15/04/2012 17:58, Will Johnson wrote:
>> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
>> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd" at his
> "home in Bayswater"
>> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater as
> well

Not the first time this has been spotted. I'm sure the press would have
found the connection by now had there been one.

Presumably the letter to which you refer is the one/two written by Lord
Lucan. If you like coincidences... Lord Lucan also had a daughter named
Camilla.

[Charlie]

On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT), Will Johnson wrote:

>> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
>> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd" at his
> "home in Bayswater"
>> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater as
> well

[YAWN]

Who the hell cares?

[Renia]

On 16/04/2012 15:00, Charlie wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT), Will Johnson wrote:
>
>>> What is the tree connection between Camilla and Peter ?
>>> I just came acrost a reference to a letter written to "Bill Shand Kydd" at his
>> "home in Bayswater"
>>> And I have Camilla's ancestor Alexander Shand as being born in Bayswater as
>> well
>
> [YAWN]
>
> Who the hell cares?

This is a genealogy newsgroup, so any British genealogical question is a
legitimate one.