Lord & Lady Sidney HERBERT (Lord Herbert of Lea)- Help!

[Cathy Haynes]

Hi all
Am new to this list, but it has been recommended to me in the hope that
there are some history buffs out there.
Have just discovered that my GGGrandmother Elizabeth TAYLOR nee Bristowe
came out to Australia in approx 1855 as a governess for Lady Sidney
HERBERT's children. She probably accompanied them out here. She was born
in approximately 1834 in either Soho, London or Kent.
What I am trying to establish is the purpose of the Herbert's visit, how
long they were in Australia for, where they may have lived while they
were in Australia, and how they would have gone about employing a
governess so that I can fill in the many gaps about my ancestor.
Lord Herbert of Lea (and later Baron Herbert) died in 1861, but I'm not
sure if it was in Australia or not.
What I do know about Lord Herbert is that he seemed to be quite the
humanitarian; he was responsible for sending Florence Nightingale out to
Crimea to establish nursing hospitals and they remained close friends.
He was also one of the people to whom Caroline Chisholm pleaded her case
for the plight of female immigrants and orphans in Australia and he
helped set up a Society to help such women.
His wife, Lady Herbert nee Mary Elizabeth Ashe A'Court (Repington)
formed a strong alliance with the Catholic Church after her husband's
death and seemed to be the confidante of Sydney Catholic Archbishop
Roger Vaughan and a regular correspondent with Cardinal Manning. She was
also a published authoress.
There was a memoir of Lord Herbert published in 1909 and there is a copy
of it in an antique book store in Sydney for $300 (out of my price
range I must say), and my library search says there is not a copy in an
Australian library. There is a copy however at Newton library Cambridge.
Can anybody out there help me?
Any help would be much appreciated
All the best
--
Cathy Haynes
Geelong, Vic AUSTRALIA


Researching:
HAYNES - Armidale & Sydney NSW; Co Cork, Ireland
TAYLOR - Central Coast NSW
Alfred KELLY born c1842 London; Central Coast NSW
CURRAN - Dungog & Grafton NSW; Bristol UK
O'DOHERTY - Port Macquarie & Wauchope NSW; Kings County Ireland
CARNEY - Port Macquarie & Wauchope NSW;Co Donegal, Ireland
BRISTOW(E) - London; Central Coast NSW
FITZSIMMONS - Dungog NSW; Co Louth, Ireland
William NORMAN (convict) born 1803 Kent; Kincumber NSW
RILEY - Co Cavan; Kincumber NSW
DUNBAR - Scotland; Macksville NSW
HARRIGAN - Branxton NSW
LENEHAN - Bathurst NSW
CAMPBELL - Paisley Scotland & Hunter Valley NSW

[CWatters]

Post by Cathy Haynes
Hi all
Am new to this list, but it has been recommended to me in the hope that
there are some history buffs out there.
Have just discovered that my GGGrandmother Elizabeth TAYLOR nee Bristowe
came out to Australia in approx 1855 as a governess for Lady Sidney
HERBERT's children. She probably accompanied them out here. She was born
in approximately 1834 in either Soho, London or Kent.
What I am trying to establish is the purpose of the Herbert's visit, how
long they were in Australia for,

Sydney Herbert was made Secretary of State for the Colonies in 1855 but only
for a few weeks...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State_for_the_Colonies

He was previously Secretary of State for war (1852-1855) during the Crimea
(1854-1856) so perhaps it was well earned jolly!

Google found this reference which I don't quite understand but which seems
might be relevant...See **** below

http://www.worldebooklibrary.com/eBooks/WorldeBookLibrary.com/ladyvisit.htm

A Lady's Visit to the Gold Diggings of Australia in 1852-53

Whilst in Victoria, I met with a great variety of emigrants, and I was much
struck by the great success that seems to have attended on almost all of
those who came out under the auspices of Mrs. Chisholm. No one in England
can fully appreciate the benefits her unwearied exertions have conferred
upon the colonies. I have met many of the matrons of her ships, and not only
do they themselves seem to have made their way in the world, but the young
females who were under their care during the voyage appear to have done
equally well. Perhaps one way of accounting for this, is the fact that a
great many of those going out by the Chisholm Society are from Scotland, the
inhabitants of which country are peculiarly fortunate in the colonies, their
industry, frugality, and "canniness" being the very qualities to make a
fortune there. *** "Sydney Herbert's needlewomen" **** bear but a bad name;
and the worst recommendation a young girl applying for a situation can give,
is to say she came out in that manner--not because the colonists look down
on any one coming out by the assistance of others, but because it is
imagined her female associates on the voyage cannot have been such as to
improve her morality, even if she were good for anything before.

[CWatters]

Another one for you...

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:AvYBI_MBuAkJ:www.gutenberg.org/files/17348/17348.txt+%22Sydney+Herbert%22+sent+to+Australia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=19

Title: Chambers's Edinburgh Journal, No. 432
Volume 17, New Series, April 10, 1852

COLONIAL PENNY-POSTAGE.

'I shall write to every one in turn, but it is expensive sending to
many at once,' says one of the poor needlewomen, whom Mr Sydney
Herbert's Female Emigration Fund has enabled to obtain a comfortable
home at Adelaide.

<snip>

It is strange that Mr Sydney Herbert, Mrs Chisholm, and the rest of
those honourable men and women who have taken so much pains to promote
emigration....

<snip>

[CWatters]

So it would seem he might have gone to Australia to see how his emigration
scheme was working out.

[CWatters]

Post by CWatters
So it would seem he might have gone to Australia to see how his emigration
scheme was working out.

Bit more on that scheme here...

http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/descriptions/gggsketch.html

FUND FOR PROMOTING FEMALE EMIGRATION

Browsing through GGGPa's Scrapbook, I found the following cutting, dated
March 12th, 1853, (journal unknown) which I think will be of interest to
those in Australia. It will also be of interest to others, for similar
schemes to the one described mushroomed in England in the 1840's and 1850's
in attempts to relieve the grinding poverty of the inhabitants of the major
cities. A semi-mythological sub-culture has developed, over the years, in
relation to the Great Famine of Ireland and the ensuing emigration. It must
be remembered, however, that conditions in the major towns, and in the
countryside of the United Kingdom in the mid-Victorian era, were equally as
appalling for those poor souls forced to seek a new life elsewhere. Bear
this in mind when reading the cutting.

FUND FOR PROMOTING FEMALE EMIGRATION

It was in the winter of 1849 that Mr. Sidney Herbert, horrified, with many
others, by the fearful revelations then in the process of being made of the
condition of the London needlewomen, started the idea of a great emigration
scheme, which was actively taken up in the higher and more opulent branches
of society; a large sum was promptly subscribed and immediate practical
measures were adopted. The sum at first received amounted to upwards of
£22,000 and some small additions have since dropped in. With this money, the
promoters of the scheme have sought for, investigated the cases and the
characters, organised into bands, fed, lodged and despatched, in 1850, not
less than 409 young women; in 1851, upwards of 228; and in 1852, the
greatest number, 434 - making a grand total of 1071 young women rescued from
the brink of starvation in London; and now - at least the vast majority of
them - comfortably settled in marriage, or service, amidst the plenty of
Australia. This great benefit, to comparatively so great a number of
helpless individuals, has cost in all £18,973 11s. 8d; money actually
expended. By this, the passage payments amount to nearly £12,000 and the
purely emigrational expenses of outfit, and the "Home", to about £6,000. Add
to this the ordinary working expenses, which are creditably low, and we have
the outlay already mentioned. At this moment, the further liabilities of the
Society for part passage-money for six ships, lately despatched, is £1,565
11s. 8d; leaving, as an ultimate result, a working balance of only £3,564
1s. 11d.
Under these circumstances, it obvious that the Society must speedily
discontinue its operations if the public, on being made acquainted with the
vast benefit conferred not only upon the poor, friendless, emigrants
themselves, but upon Australian society, should not come forward to continue
the stream of bounty which, three years ago, so liberally flowed. The
publications of the Society will amply prove the great success of the
experiment. The eager welcome with which girls of good character were
received by the various Australian colonies, the rapidity with which one and
all were provided with service, and the concurring testimony, not only of
their own letters - hundreds of which have been received - but of many of
the principal colonists and government functionaries at the Antipodes, leave
no doubt of the benefits conferred upon the emigrants themselves, or the
advantage afforded by the arrival of so copious a succession of supplies of
female labour to the settlements. And yet the demand continues more
eagerly - more extensively than ever. The gold fever has attracted a vast
male emigration and the balance of sexes in Australia is more uneven than
ever; while in Great Britain the reverse is the case - the number of
females, by the last census, outstripping that of the males of the
population by no less than 545,762 individuals. It is evident, therefore,
that reasons both of humanity and of policy combine to urge forward a system
of female emigration on as great a scale as can be effected.

The tables showing the differences of wages and general position of the
emigrants sent by Mr. Sidney Herbert's Society are very curious, and contain
information which it would be well for the working-classes, generally, to
read. The list of occupations from which women were taken in London is, in
itself, remarkable. There were artificial-flower-makers, box-makers,
brush-makers, carpet-bag-makers, gelatine-packers, gold-burnishers,
lace-transferrers and furriers: these are, of course, exceptional
employments. The vast proportion of the emigrants lived by the dreary labour
of the needle. Of professed dressmakers, during the three years of
operation, there were sent out 86; of needle-workers, 132; and of persons
taking the designation of "servants" but, we believe, supporting themselves,
as a general rule, by various species of needlework, the greater number of
494. The next class in extent to the seamstresses is that of persons without
any particular employment, of whom there were despatched 84. Only 18 nominal
shirt-makers proceeded to the Antipodes, but many of the 494 quasi-servants
must have toiled at this most un-remunerating species of labour. So much for
the proportions sent out from different female employments. A short
selection from the English and Australian wage tables will complete the
picture:-

Employment in England Yearly wages in Australia
Berlin-worker, 6s per week. £25
Laundress, 6s. per week. £25
Servant, £7 per annum. £18
Servant, 1s. 6d per week. £20
Servant, no wages. £20
Stock-maker, 4s. per week £25
Nursemaid, 3s per week. £30
Laundress, 1s. 6d. per week. £20
Housemaid, 2s. per week £25
Fancy needleworker, 5s. per week. £25
Nurse, 9s. per week. £52
Shoebinder, 5s. per week. £30
Needlewoman, 2s 6d. per week. £18

With the above sums as wages, rations and lodging must not be forgotten. The
table from which they were taken relates to 49 young women who landed, in
March, 1852, at Port Phillip. More recent arrivals present nearly the same
results and offer a cheering picture of the change in the circumstances and
prospects of so many of our poorer countrywomen.

On Wednesday, March 9th, there were despatched in the 'Madagascar' 40
emigrants, of ages ranging from seventeen to thirty-two, and who had
hitherto been seamstresses, stock-makers, shoe-binders, domestic servants
&c. The 'Madagascar', 1200 tons, Captain Harris, one of the finest ships
hitherto engaged in the East India trade, but which has just been
transferred by Mr. Green (her owner) to the Australian trade, had been
engaged to convey the emigrants to Port Phillip; and a most commodious and
convenient cabin had been especially fitted-up, amidships, for their
accommodation.

The party, having arrived at Gravesend, went onboard the 'Madagascar' where
the girls were immediately mustered in their cabin and received, each in
rotation, a copy of a letter of directions and advice which had been
addressed to them by Mrs. Herbert.
Lord Robert Grosvenor then delivered a few parting words to them in the name
of the committee and read to them an excellent letter of advice from Mrs.
Herbert. The Rev. Mr. Quekett also addressed a few farewell words to the
girls, in the course of which he observed that when the last party reached
the colony, no fewer than 300 persons assembled to engage them. They ought
to be extremely cautious and not make any engagement that the Government
inspector did not sanction.

The members of the committee shortly afterwards took a final leave of the
party and returned to town.

[Jan Stockley]

Post by CWatters

Post by CWatters
So it would seem he might have gone to Australia to see how his emigration
scheme was working out.

Bit more on that scheme here...
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/descriptions/gggsketch.html
FUND FOR PROMOTING FEMALE EMIGRATION

Fascinating stuff Colin, thank you for making it available Jan

[CWatters]

Post by Jan Stockley
Fascinating stuff Colin, thank you for making it available Jan

Don't thank me, thank the nice Mr Google. I quite enjoy tracking this sort
of thing down. It's all new to me as well. I'm amazed how much of our
history I never knew about. Beats watching TV.

My fathers line was very much an "Empire family" - one left England in
1823ish and went to India with the army (via China, the Opium wars and the
aqusition of Hong King). He settled in India on the way back and the family
remained there until just before the second world war - about 4 generations
were born there including my father. When we were kids my grandmother told
us loads of stories about life in India. Very little about this period
(1800-1940) was taught at school. All I can really remember is a trip to the
Commonwealth Institute.