Marriage by Proxy

[Tony Proctor]

A friend asked me to trace a wedding that occurred during the 1950s between a man in England and a woman in the Village of Cava de Tirreni, Campania,
Italy. This marriage took place by proxy -- which I have never come across before -- with each party being represented in the other country by a
family member.

I can find no trace of the marriage in the English BMD, or the Italian BMD available on Ancestry, and wondered if anyone knows whether they might have
had a different method of recording.

Tony Proctor

[Charles Ellson]

On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 20:29:24 +0100, Tony Proctor

Post by Tony Proctor
A friend asked me to trace a wedding that occurred during the 1950s between a man in England and a woman in the Village of Cava de Tirreni, Campania,
Italy. This marriage took place by proxy -- which I have never come across before -- with each party being represented in the other country by a
family member.
I can find no trace of the marriage in the English BMD, or the Italian BMD available on Ancestry, and wondered if anyone knows whether they might have
had a different method of recording.

The marriage would not be lawful in England unless both partners were
domiciled in states which allowed such marriages; it would then be a
matter of recognition of a lawful foreign marriage. That should mean
there is no trace in the records for England and Wales. If the English
man was _domiciled_ in a state which recognised proxy marriages then
there might be an entry in the records of marriages abroad.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/getting-married/

Note that there is no "United Kingdom Law" which the CAB ought to know
- each of the three jurisdictions in the UK has its own laws; the
matter would get more complicated had they later become domiciled in
Scotland before 2006.

[Tony Proctor]

Post by Charles Ellson
On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 20:29:24 +0100, Tony Proctor

Post by Tony Proctor
A friend asked me to trace a wedding that occurred during the 1950s between a man in England and a woman in the Village of Cava de Tirreni, Campania,
Italy. This marriage took place by proxy -- which I have never come across before -- with each party being represented in the other country by a
family member.
I can find no trace of the marriage in the English BMD, or the Italian BMD available on Ancestry, and wondered if anyone knows whether they might have
had a different method of recording.

The marriage would not be lawful in England unless both partners were
domiciled in states which allowed such marriages; it would then be a
matter of recognition of a lawful foreign marriage. That should mean
there is no trace in the records for England and Wales. If the English
man was _domiciled_ in a state which recognised proxy marriages then
there might be an entry in the records of marriages abroad.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/getting-married/
Note that there is no "United Kingdom Law" which the CAB ought to know
- each of the three jurisdictions in the UK has its own laws; the
matter would get more complicated had they later become domiciled in
Scotland before 2006.

Thanks Charles. I am not aware of the circumstances for the proxy, other than their geographic separation (this is for a friend), but the couple were
both domiciled in the English Midlands by 1956.

I could not work how which jurisdiction would be responsible for registration, given the symmetry of the situation. Since they later lived in England,
and had children there, might the foreign marriage be duplicated in the English records, as with "overseas" events?

Tony

[Charles Ellson]

On Sun, 2 Oct 2022 11:36:10 +0100, Tony Proctor

Post by Tony Proctor

Post by Charles Ellson
On Sat, 1 Oct 2022 20:29:24 +0100, Tony Proctor

Post by Tony Proctor
A friend asked me to trace a wedding that occurred during the 1950s between a man in England and a woman in the Village of Cava de Tirreni, Campania,
Italy. This marriage took place by proxy -- which I have never come across before -- with each party being represented in the other country by a
family member.
I can find no trace of the marriage in the English BMD, or the Italian BMD available on Ancestry, and wondered if anyone knows whether they might have
had a different method of recording.

The marriage would not be lawful in England unless both partners were
domiciled in states which allowed such marriages; it would then be a
matter of recognition of a lawful foreign marriage. That should mean
there is no trace in the records for England and Wales. If the English
man was _domiciled_ in a state which recognised proxy marriages then
there might be an entry in the records of marriages abroad.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/getting-married/
Note that there is no "United Kingdom Law" which the CAB ought to know
- each of the three jurisdictions in the UK has its own laws; the
matter would get more complicated had they later become domiciled in
Scotland before 2006.

Thanks Charles. I am not aware of the circumstances for the proxy, other than their geographic separation (this is for a friend), but the couple were
both domiciled in the English Midlands by 1956.
I could not work how which jurisdiction would be responsible for registration, given the symmetry of the situation. Since they later lived in England,
and had children there, might the foreign marriage be duplicated in the English records, as with "overseas" events?

It would have needed to be registered at a UK Consulate, after which
it would appear in the foreign marriages registers. Non-recording in
any of the UK countries' records would not invalidate recognition of a
marriage elsewhere which was otherwise valid, most of which I suspect
are routinely recognised by e.g. the DWP etc. having sight of the
original or a certified copy. Unfortunately it only seems to be women
whose 1939 National Identity Register entries have annotations
indicating a later marriage.