Old Occupation?

[Tracy Dunne]

I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?

William R G BARRETT's occupation on the 1891 census of Dorset is given as ag
lab. He was then aged 16 years.

He married at age 22 in 1897 and the certificate states his occupation as
"traveller".

By 1901 census he is shown as a House Carpenter.

Could "traveller" be the same as journeyman, if he had become a carpenter
sometimes after the age of 16?

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you.


Tracy

[Lesley Robertson]

Post by Tracy Dunne
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?
William R G BARRETT's occupation on the 1891 census of Dorset is given as
ag lab. He was then aged 16 years.
He married at age 22 in 1897 and the certificate states his occupation as
"traveller".

My Uncle (who would have been over 90 now) always referred to the sales reps
(or travelling salesmen) who called at his shop as "travellers".
Lesley Robertson

[Roy Stockdill]

Post by Lesley Robertson

Post by Tracy Dunne
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?
William R G BARRETT's occupation on the 1891 census of Dorset is given as
ag lab. He was then aged 16 years.
He married at age 22 in 1897 and the certificate states his occupation as
"traveller".

My Uncle (who would have been over 90 now) always referred to the sales reps
(or travelling salesmen) who called at his shop as "travellers".>

A quick search on just one of the 1881 census CDs (Yorkshire) by
entering the one word "traveller" in advanced search produced no
fewer than 3,386 entries. I certainly didn't check them all but the
vast majority appeared to be commercial travellers in some commodity
or other, rather than gypsy travellers which is what is usually
meant today.

Commercial travellers existed in such large numbers in Victorian
times that many towns had special hotels to accommodate them on their
overnight trips, and you still occasionally find even today hotels
that are called "commercial" hotels. However, no doubt today's
commercial travellers scorn the term as a job description and
probably called themselves "mobile sales executives" or some such
nonsensical title!

Commercial travellers were also responsible for more jokes than
mothers-in-law, there being many variations on the theme of
the traveller who knocks at the door of a lonely farmhouse, seeking
accommodation for the night, and is told he will have to sleep with
the farmer's wife or daughter. My favourite is the one about the
commercial traveller who is told by the farmer, "OK but you will have
to sleep with me", to which the traveller replies, "Excuse me, I must
be in the wrong joke!"

Roy Stockdill
Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- www.one-name.org
Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History:- www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

"Familiarity breeds contempt - and children."

Mark Twain

[Kim Groothuis]

Not just jokes, but songs as well. In a former life I used to sing and play old north country songs and the Manchester Cornstalk was always a favourite (particularly with Church of England womens' groups, strangely!, I thought it would be a bit rude for them).

The gist of it was the old story; traveller stays the night at the commercial hotel, meets the daughter, comes back a year later and she presents him with the product of the evening, namely a baby. If you try really hard you can get thirteen verses out of that. 'T'was of a pub in Manchester, the Cornstalk was the name' etc. They always used to 'drink their pint of sherry wine' in those songs as well - has sherry got stronger or am I just feeble?

Kim

Roy Stockdill <***@stockdill.com> wrote:
Commercial travellers were also responsible for more jokes than
mothers-in-law, there being many variations on the theme of
the traveller who knocks at the door of a lonely farmhouse, seeking
accommodation for the night, and is told he will have to sleep with
the farmer's wife or daughter. My favourite is the one about the
commercial traveller who is told by the farmer, "OK but you will have
to sleep with me", to which the traveller replies, "Excuse me, I must
be in the wrong joke!"


---------------------------------
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

[Eve McLaughlin]

Post by Roy Stockdill
A quick search on just one of the 1881 census CDs (Yorkshire) by
entering the one word "traveller" in advanced search produced no
fewer than 3,386 entries. I certainly didn't check them all but the
vast majority appeared to be commercial travellers in some commodity
or other, rather than gypsy travellers which is what is usually
meant today.

In Yorkshire perhaps, but in general, the name is more equally shared
between the two,m with the commercials normally qualified by the 'comm'
or the trade.

[S***@aol.com]

In a message dated 11/10/2004 11:40:09 GMT Daylight Time,
***@removethis.ntlworld.com writes:
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?
A Traveller, was also known as a Canvasser, who sold goods, or took orders
for goods, on production of samples, generally by calling on the consumers in
their homes as a representative of his/her firm, and worked usually on a
commission basis, or on a small salary and commission. There were also
Advertising Travellers, who solicited advertisements, Book Travellers who canvassed
schools, public offices, etc. for the sale of books on a subscription system,
and Directory Travellers who collected information for directories.

Regards Stan Mapstone
www.mapstone.org

[JJupar]

Post by Brian Harpur
Subject: Re: Old Occupation?
Date: 11/10/2004 13:30 GMT Daylight Time
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?<

Hi

Although it is not politically correct in the 21st century to call someone 'a
traveller' a different meaning in the C19 was in use.

People working with Fairs and Circuses were called travelling people.
Amongst these would be the people that we knew as gypsies and tinkers.

There are several sites to research these people which may be some help to you.

http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/

Romany & Traveller Family History Society in Britain
6, St. James Walk,
South Chailey,
East Sussex,
BN8 4BU

There are of course only opne branch but the other travellers were the
commercial traveller who have already been explained to you.

Hope these are some help to you.

Judy Elkington

[CWatters]

Post by Tracy Dunne
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?

Usually means a salesman that calls door to door or by appointment at your
office for example:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=occupation+traveller+1891

Eamples...

Occupation: traveller - fancy goods

occupation: draper's salesman commercial traveller

Draper's traveller

[Brian Harpur]

An excerpt from an article in today's issue of the IrishExaminer.com

"Travellers to meet councils as disturbances continue

A group representing the Travelling community and the Pavee Point centre is
to meet with Dublin City and Fingal County Councils at midday to try to find
a resolution to the dispute over the closure of an access road in Finglas.
The row flared after Dublin City Council decided to close off an access
route to a halting site at Dunsink Lane because of extensive illegal
dumping.
Over the past week, the Travelling community held high-profile protests
against the move, saying they were not responsible for the dumping and were
being unjustly punished.
Last night, disturbances broke out in the area involving up to 250 people.
A spokesperson for Pavee Point said they were not involved in the incident.
"

Maybe it's not an such an "old" occupation.


----- Original Message -----
From: "CWatters" <***@pandoraBOX.be>
To: <GENBRIT-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Old Occupation?

Post by CWatters

Post by Tracy Dunne
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?

Usually means a salesman that calls door to door or by appointment at your

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=occupation+traveller+1891

Post by CWatters
Eamples...
Occupation: traveller - fancy goods
occupation: draper's salesman commercial traveller
Draper's traveller
______________________________

[Roy Stockdill]

Post by Brian Harpur
An excerpt from an article in today's issue of the IrishExaminer.com
"Travellers to meet councils as disturbances continue
A group representing the Travelling community and the Pavee Point centre is
to meet with Dublin City and Fingal County Councils at midday to try to find
a resolution to the dispute over the closure of an access road in Finglas.
The row flared after Dublin City Council decided to close off an access
route to a halting site at Dunsink Lane because of extensive illegal
dumping.
Over the past week, the Travelling community held high-profile protests
against the move, saying they were not responsible for the dumping and were
being unjustly punished.
Last night, disturbances broke out in the area involving up to 250 people.
A spokesperson for Pavee Point said they were not involved in the incident.
"
Maybe it's not an such an "old" occupation.>

There seems to be some confusion here. As I said in an earlier post,
if you look at any of the 1881 census CDs and enter just the one word
"traveller" in advanced search you will come up with thousands of
entries. The vast majority of these were commercial travellers, i.e.
usually respectable salesmen travelling the country selling
commodities. Very often the type of goods being sold are named.

The word "traveller" in the sense we understand it today of
itinerants on the road in cavarans is not found so much in 1881,
except when they were usually described specifically as gypsies. It
is not appropriate to describe them as gypsies today, since the great
majority of travellers are not true gypsies at all but feckless
drop-outs.

Roy Stockdill
Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- www.one-name.org
Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History:- www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

"Familiarity breeds contempt - and children."

Mark Twain

[CWatters]

Hi Roy,

Were many gypsies actually recorded in the 1881?

Colin

[Hugh Watkins]

Post by CWatters
Hi Roy,
Were many gypsies actually recorded in the 1881?

I happen to have the Wales and Monmouthshire 1881 CD in the drive

keywords in teh pick list

gypsy 10 = HOUSEHOLDS

gypsies | gypsy | gypsys 12 altogether
(double click in the word list to generate that kind ogf string gypsies
AND gypsy AND gypsys )

1279 households as

trave | travel | travelaer | travelar | traveler | travelers | traveler's |
traveley | travelgwyn | traveling | travelin | travell | travellar |
traveller | travellers | traveller's | travelling | travellor | travellors |
travellr | travelor | travelr | travels | traven | travener | traverller

34 households
caravaloplos | caravan | caravana | caravans | caraver | carawall | carawen

I really enjoy surfing the 1881 CDs

Huhg W


============= some of the 34 households =======================

Dwelling: Caravan Staying In Blackpool Lane
Census Place: Netherwent St Bride, Monmouth, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342257 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5217 Folio 73 Page
6
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William DIXON M 40 M Ellsfield, Worcester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Tinker snipped


Dwelling: Market Place (3 Caravan) Pontypool Fair DAy
Census Place: Trevethin, Monmouth, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342263 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5250 Folio 46 Page
25
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Henry EUSTAS M 37 M Eusom
Rel: Head
Occ: Owner Of Roundabouts & Sway Boats (On Game) snipped

Dwelling: Show Caravan? Bryddnew St
Census Place: Upper Llanvrechva, Monmouth, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342265 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5256 Folio 5 Page
4
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Lawrence WHAYMAN M 46 M Eye., Suffolk, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Photographer
Elizabeth W. WHAYMAN M 37 F Nottingham, Nottingham, England
Rel: Wife
Annie WHAYMAN U 21 F Nottingham, Nottingham, England
Rel: Daur
Occ: Photographer
James WHAYMAN U 17 M Burton.On.Trent
Rel: Son
Occ: Photographer
Sarah WHAYMAN 15 F Ilminster, Somerset, England
Rel: Daur
Occ: Photographer
William H. WHAYMAN 13 M Oxford, England
Rel: Son
Occ: Photographer

Dwelling: 91 Dolphin Street
Census Place: St Woollos, Monmouth, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342267 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5266 Folio 65 Page
31
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John FARMER M 60 M Iron Acton, Gloucester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Haulier (Caravan) snip

Dwelling: Caravan 4 Inhabited
Census Place: Cardiff St Mary, Glamorgan, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342269 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5278 Folio 161
Page 38
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Catherine STUDT W 59 F (F), Germany
Rel: Head
Occ: Proprietor Of Travelling Caravans
John STUDT U 31 M Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Son
Occ: Traveller With Caravans
Louisa STUDT U 16 F Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Daur
Occ: Traveller With Caravans
Jacob STUDT M 22 M Carmarthen, Wales
Rel: Son
Occ: Traveller With Caravans
Mary A. STUDT M 22 F Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Wife To Son
Occ: Traveller With Caravans (Showman)
Kate WELMAN U 24 F Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Servant
Occ: Cook With Travelling Caravans
Jane PHILLIPS U 19 F Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Servant
Occ: Gen Servant
Joseph STAPLETON M 35 M Devon, England
Rel: Servant
Occ: Engine Driver
Fredk. PLUEPS U 26 M Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Servant
Occ: House Carpenter
John BROWN U 26 M Manchester
Rel: Servant
Occ: Workman
Evan JONES U 28 M Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Rel: Servant
Occ: Workman
Fred ROBSON U 20 M Jersey, Channel Islands
Rel: Servant
Occ: Workman
Benjamin PHILLIPS U 16 M Jersey, Channel Islands
Rel: Servant
Occ: Workman

Dwelling: Caravan 4 Inhabited
Census Place: Cardiff St Mary, Glamorgan, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342269 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5278 Folio 161
Page 38
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William DAY M 50 M Hull, York, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Menagerie Proprietor
Ellen DAY M 60 F Prescott, Lancashire, England
Rel: Wife
James DAY 22 M S Shields, Durham, England
Rel: Son
Martha DAY 12 F S Shields, Durham, England
Rel: Daur
Anne DAY 3 F Leeds, York, England
Rel: Daur
William DALE M 47 M Mucking, Essex, England
Occ: Prinl Lighthouse Keeper
Eliza Annie DALE M 47 F Orsett, Essex, England
Occ: Wife
Alfred DALE U 16 M Orsett, Essex, England
Occ: Son
Francis John DALE U 15 M Kil..., York, England
Occ: Son
Chas. D. DAVISON M 22 M C Islds Alderney
Occ: Asst Lighthouse Keeper
Edmund ELLIS M 35 M Scilly Islds, Cornwall, England
Occ: A B Seaman
Ellen DAY U 24 F Scotland
Rel: Daur
William STEWART U 20 M Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Occ: Servt
James FAGAN U 18 M Edinburgh, Scotland
Occ: Servt

Dwelling: 34 Davis St
Census Place: Cardiff St Mary, Glamorgan, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342270 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5280 Folio 49 Page
95
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Josh. CARAVANA M 31 M Malta
Rel: Head
Occ: Rigger
Ellen CARAVANA M 36 F P Pool
Rel: Wife
Dora CARAVANA 4 F Cardiff
Rel: Daur

Dwelling: 2 Amhurst St
Census Place: Llandaff, Glamorgan, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342271 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5283 Folio 80 Page
57
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Ben CARAVALOPLOS M 28 M Corfu (F), Greece
Rel: Head
Occ: Sailor
Sarah CARAVALOPLOS M 28 F Scilly St Agnes
Rel: Wife

Dwelling: Caravan Travelling
Census Place: Gelligaer, Glamorgan, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342277 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5307 Folio 66 Page
45
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Edward EBLEY M 56 M Worcester, Worcester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Comedian (Actor)

Census Place: Gelligaer, Glamorgan, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342277 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5307 Folio 66 Page
45
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John HIPKISS M 37 M Oldswinford, Worcester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Musician

Dwelling: Caravans
Census Place: Swansea Town, Glamorgan, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342290 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5356 Folio 30 Page
55
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Henry STUDT M 37 M Carmarthen, Wales
Rel: Head
Occ: Engineers Man Of Roundabouts Proprietor Of Hobby Hores (Showman

Dwelling: Travelling Caravan
Census Place: (Llanwnog) Surnant, Montgomery, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342318 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5483 Folio 69 Page
15
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
William JOHNSON M 36 M Tyrone, Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Travelling Tin Man

sus Place: Newtown, Montgomery, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342319 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5486 Folio 42 Page
35
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
John RUSSELL M 41 M Dover, Kent, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Coal Carter & Travelling Exhibitor Of Monkeys Etc In Caravan

Dwelling: Beast Market Caravans
Census Place: Wrexham Regis, Denbigh, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342327 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5520 Folio 83 Page
34
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Samuel SHEPHARD M 33 M Leicester, England
Rel: Head
Occ: Travellers (Hawkers)

Dwelling: Caravan at the Yard of the Machno Hotel
Census Place: Penmachno, Caernarvon, Wales
Source: FHL Film 1342330 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 5537 Folio 48 Page
31
Marr Age Sex Birthplace
Charles BLISETT M 50 M Ireland
Rel: Head
Occ: Showman

[Roy Stockdill]

Were many gypsies actually recorded in the 1881?>

I would have to do a search with "advanced search" on every one of
the 2 dozen CDs, but I see Hugh W has given a comprehensive reply.

Somewhat curiously, entering the word "gypsy", "gipsy" or "gipsies"
on the Yorkshire discs produces only 9 entries and about 30 people,
but there must have been far, far more than that. The great majority
are obviously not specifically identified as gypsies, but entering
"hawker" - a traditional gypsy occupation - produces over 3,700
entries in Yorkshire alone.

Roy Stockdill
Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- www.one-name.org
Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History:- www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

"Familiarity breeds contempt - and children."

Mark Twain

[Paul Vivash]

----- Original Message -----
From: "CWatters" <***@pandoraBOX.be>
To: <GENBRIT-***@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Old Occupation?

Post by CWatters
Hi Roy,
Were many gypsies actually recorded in the 1881?
Colin

Taking the SW England disc and searching on "Gypsy" yielded 11 households.
Some of the occupations were shown as "Traveller (Gypsy) Hawker", then
there were 3 occupied households at Gypsy Town, Culmstock, Devon but the
occupations were a retired dairy keeper and a shoemaker! There were also 9
gypsies recorded as being on a farm in Bisley but, although details such as
marital status and age were given, they were not named!

Paul

[Andrew Sellon]

Paul -

Probably all named LEE.

The distinction between a hawker and a pedlar I have always had difficulty
in distinguishing. It is an important one, because a licence is required to
peddle but not to hawk.

I suspect this is because it would be quite impossible to try any successful
enforcement action on a travelling hawker, but a pedlar is inclined to
operate on a more localised basis.

Yours Aye Andrew Sellon East Anglia

Post by Paul Vivash
Taking the SW England disc and searching on "Gypsy" yielded 11 households.
Some of the occupations were shown as "Traveller (Gypsy) Hawker", then
there were 3 occupied households at Gypsy Town, Culmstock, Devon but the
occupations were a retired dairy keeper and a shoemaker! There were also 9
gypsies recorded as being on a farm in Bisley but, although details such as
marital status and age were given, they were not named!

[Eve McLaughlin]

Post by CWatters
Were many gypsies actually recorded in the 1881?

quite a loty, mostly AS travellers or gypsy traveller rather than plain
gypsies. Many were also there with their winter trades of brushmaker,
basket maker, hawker etc

[Richard]

From dictionary.com -

Chiefly British.
A traveling salesperson.
A member of any of various groups of traditionally itinerate people
living especially in Scotland and Ireland.

When did he marry in 1897 - Ag lab work was often seasonal, he could
have been trying to scrape together a crust during the winter doing
odd-jobs, or perhaps he was tinkering.


HTH
Richard

Post by Tracy Dunne
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?
William R G BARRETT's occupation on the 1891 census of Dorset is given as ag
lab. He was then aged 16 years.
He married at age 22 in 1897 and the certificate states his occupation as
"traveller".
By 1901 census he is shown as a House Carpenter.
Could "traveller" be the same as journeyman, if he had become a carpenter
sometimes after the age of 16?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Tracy

[JB]

Post by Tracy Dunne
Could "traveller" be the same as journeyman, if he had become a carpenter

sometimes after the age of 16?<<

In my part of the country, travellers are those who lived in caravans (now
in sub-standard houses) and travelled to the hop fields in the season for
hop picking - sometimes wrongly called gypsies.

My great-great grandfather was described as a 'traveller' in the 1871
census. In 1851 he was Harbour Master in Bideford and owned sailing ships.
He was described as a Master Mariner on his childrens' marriage and birth
certificates but they 'did a flit' to London in the 1860s when the shipping
business fell apart so I suspect the term 'traveller' in this case was a
euphemism for 'doing a flit'!

It looks as though 'traveller' can cover a multitude of meanings.

Jeanne Bunting

[S***@aol.com]

In a message dated 11/10/2004 19:12:26 GMT Daylight Time, ***@stockdill.com
writes:
It
is not appropriate to describe them as gypsies today, since the great
majority of travellers are not true gypsies at all but feckless
drop-outs.
traveller n.
a person who is travelling or who often travels. • (usu. Traveller) Brit. a
Gypsy. • (also New Age traveller) Brit. a person who holds New Age values and
leads an itinerant and unconventional lifestyle. The Concise Oxford English
Dictionary

Regards Stan Mapstone
www.mapstone.org

[Roy Stockdill]

a person who is travelling or who often travels. â?¢ (usu. Traveller) Brit. a
Gypsy. â?¢ (also New Age traveller) Brit. a person who holds New Age values and
leads an itinerant and unconventional lifestyle. The Concise Oxford English
Dictionary >

From the Oxford English Reference Dictionary, a companion work...

"Gypsy. A member of a travelling people with dark skin and hair,
speaking a language (Romany) related to Hindi and traditionally
living by seasonal work, itinerant trade and fortune-telling."

True gypsies are a distnctly identifiable race of people who are
thought to have originated in the Indian subcontinent, which they
left some time before 1000 AD, spreading across Asia and into Europe,
arriving in Western Europe in the 15th century.

How many so-called "New Age" travellers fit this description?

Roy Stockdill
Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- www.one-name.org
Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History:- www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

One would be in less danger
From the wiles of the stranger
If one's own kin and kith
Were more fun to be with

Ogden Nash

[Peter]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 10:34:54 GMT, "Tracy Dunne"

Post by Tracy Dunne
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?
William R G BARRETT's occupation on the 1891 census of Dorset is given as ag
lab. He was then aged 16 years.
He married at age 22 in 1897 and the certificate states his occupation as
"traveller".
By 1901 census he is shown as a House Carpenter.
Could "traveller" be the same as journeyman, if he had become a carpenter
sometimes after the age of 16?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Tracy

There is no connection between the words "traveller" and "journeyman"
- Journeyman is a corruption of a French word/phrase meaning dayman
i.e. - a tradesman who was paid by the day.


At least that's my understanding- doubtless someone will be along
momentarily to either confirm or more likely correct me.

[Eve McLaughlin]

Post by Tracy Dunne
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?

it means two very different things
1. an itinerant like a gipsy or hawker (mostly)
2. in towns, a commercial traveller, selling goods off sample for a
single firm (C19) (travelling salesman in US) This is usually
qualified with 'comm' and an indication of the trade added 'confect.'
shoes' 'drapery'

Post by Tracy Dunne
He married at age 22 in 1897 and the certificate states his occupation as
"traveller".

so he has taken to the road, possible selling rural artefacts like
baskets, bedmats, woodwares, pegs, cricket bats, etc (or horses which
fell off the back of a farm trailer.)

Post by Tracy Dunne
By 1901 census he is shown as a House Carpenter.

that is surprising but not impossible, if he developed a talent for
handling wood, since the building trades used a lot of labour then, as
towns were expanding massively

Post by Tracy Dunne
Could "traveller" be the same as journeyman,

no, not at all - journeyman has nothing to do with travelling, and
everything to do with being paid by the day, journee. A journeyman
usually served an apprenticeship to a skilled trade first. It was,
however, possible to develop a natural talent into a skill without
formal training by 1901.

[Roy Stockdill]

Post by Eve McLaughlin
it means two very different things
1. an itinerant like a gipsy or hawker (mostly)
2. in towns, a commercial traveller, selling goods off sample for a
single firm (C19) (travelling salesman in US) This is usually
qualified with 'comm' and an indication of the trade added 'confect.'
shoes' 'drapery'

Post by Tracy Dunne
He married at age 22 in 1897 and the certificate states his occupation as
"traveller".

so he has taken to the road, possible selling rural artefacts like
baskets, bedmats, woodwares, pegs, cricket bats, etc (or horses which
fell off the back of a farm trailer.)

Post by Tracy Dunne
By 1901 census he is shown as a House Carpenter.

that is surprising but not impossible, if he developed a talent for
handling wood, since the building trades used a lot of labour then, as
towns were expanding massively>

Have to agree with every word of this. People did improve their
status in life, perhaps even more so in the 19th century than today,
since there was a much wider gulf then between the classes.

My gt-gt-grandfather Richard BRACEWELL starts off as a hawker when he
marries at Arncliffe in the Yorkshire Dales in 1840, moves to
Bradford where he appears in successive censuses as a labourer but
by 1881 has become a cab proprietor (of the hansom type, presumably).

This is by no means uncommon and must surely be replicated in many
families.

Roy Stockdill
Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- www.one-name.org
Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History:- www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

"We are all omnibuses in which our ancestors ride, and every now and then
one of them sticks his head out and embarrasses us."
Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Steve Hayes]

Post by Eve McLaughlin

Post by Tracy Dunne
I have searched several sites which list old occupations and not found any
reference to any being called a "traveller" and wonder if anyone could
enlighten me?

it means two very different things
1. an itinerant like a gipsy or hawker (mostly)
2. in towns, a commercial traveller, selling goods off sample for a
single firm (C19) (travelling salesman in US) This is usually
qualified with 'comm' and an indication of the trade added 'confect.'
shoes' 'drapery'

I've seen entries like "traveller in shoes" -- meaning he was selling them,
not just wearing them.

[Roy Stockdill]

Post by Steve Hayes
I've seen entries like "traveller in shoes" -- meaning he was selling them,
not just wearing them.>

And, of course, there were commercial gentlemen who travelled in
ladies' underwear!

Roy Stockdill
Web page of the Guild of One-Name Studies:- www.one-name.org
Newbies' Guide to Genealogy & Family History:- www.genuki.org.uk/gs/Newbie.html

"Familiarity breeds contempt - and children."

Mark Twain

[Charles Ellson]

In article <***@smtp1.freeola.net>
***@stockdill.com "Roy Stockdill" writes:

<snip>

Post by Roy Stockdill
And, of course, there were commercial gentlemen who travelled in
ladies' underwear!

Would you buy something from someone who hasn't got the faith to use
their own products? ;-)