Early probate records

[Geoff]

Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

[knuttle]

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order
by the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

In the US records and I assume in Britain, they are generally in
chronological order, BUT there are exceptions.

The easiest way to get into these records is to use the native indexes
from the individual book ie those indexes create by the person who was
responsible for creating and keeping the records.

There is usually an index in the first pages of the book. Note I said
book, not file. Some files have several books in the file. In the US
you can usually find the first page of the book by dividing the total
number of images in the file by the number of books. ie if there are
900 images and 3 books the index for the first will be a image 1, the
second book at image 300, and the third as 600. Useing the page number
in the images You may have to scroll ahead or back to find the index.

Most are simple indexes, (A on page one, B on page two etc.). However
there are the records with a propietary index system, some times it
takes more time to figure out the index system that to find the document
in the book.

Finally there are the files where they opened a folder and scanned the
documents as they came from the folder. These are the most difficult
because there is no set length to the number of pages in the probate
record, and in most incidence the pages are not numbers.

Don't ignore these files. I know of one probate record of over 155
pages, that you must go through page by page as there is no index, BUT
is the most complete genealogy of the family I have found for the family.

While some records have digitized indexes, I alway check the native
indexes because the people transcribing the records may mis transcribe
the name, or only include the principal in the probate record. ie the
deceased, not the administrator, or others.

Remember the is from my experience with the US records, it may be
different in Britain or Europe.

[Geoff]

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

In the US records and I assume in Britain, they are generally in
chronological order, BUT there are exceptions.

The easiest way to get into these records is to use the native indexes
from the individual book ie those indexes create by the person who was
responsible for creating and keeping the records.

There is usually an index in the first pages of the book. Note I said
book, not file. Some files have several books in the file. In the US
you can usually find the first page of the book by dividing the total
number of images in the file by the number of books. ie if there are
900 images and 3 books the index for the first will be a image 1, the
second book at image 300, and the third as 600. Useing the page number
in the images You may have to scroll ahead or back to find the index.

Most are simple indexes, (A on page one, B on page two etc.). However
there are the records with a propietary index system, some times it
takes more time to figure out the index system that to find the document
in the book.

Finally there are the files where they opened a folder and scanned the
documents as they came from the folder. These are the most difficult
because there is no set length to the number of pages in the probate
record, and in most incidence the pages are not numbers.

Don't ignore these files. I know of one probate record of over 155
pages, that you must go through page by page as there is no index, BUT
is the most complete genealogy of the family I have found for the family.

While some records have digitized indexes, I alway check the native
indexes because the people transcribing the records may mis transcribe
the name, or only include the principal in the probate record. ie the
deceased, not the administrator, or others.

Remember the is from my experience with the US records, it may be
different in Britain or Europe.
Thank you for that very detailed explanation. This should help finding them
a bit easier.
Unfortunately, I don't think I worded my question too clearly, what I am
trying to find out, is, are the images in a file, in the date order of the
date the will was written or the date order of probate.
In other words, is the chronological order of the images for a particular
year, the date the will was written or the date probate was granted?

[knuttle]

Post by knuttle

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order
by the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

In the US records and I assume in Britain, they are generally in
chronological order, BUT there are exceptions.
The easiest way to get into these records is to use the native indexes
from the individual book ie those indexes create by the person who was
responsible for creating and keeping the records.
There is usually an index in the first pages of the book. Note I said
book, not file.  Some files have several books in the file.   In the US
you can usually find the first page of the book by dividing the total
number of images in the file by the number of books.   ie if there are
900 images and 3 books the index for the first will be a image 1, the
second book at image 300, and the third as 600.  Useing the page number
in the images You may have to scroll ahead or back to find the index.
Most are simple indexes, (A on page one, B on page two etc.).  However
there are the records with a propietary index system, some times it
takes more time to figure out the index system that to find the document
in the book.
Finally there are the files where they opened a folder and scanned the
documents as they came from the folder.   These are the most difficult
because there is no set length to the number of pages in the probate
record, and in most incidence the pages are not numbers.
Don't ignore these files.  I know of one probate record of over 155
pages, that you must go through page by page as there is no index, BUT
is the most complete genealogy of the family I have found for the family.
While some records have digitized indexes, I alway check the native
indexes because the people transcribing the records may mis transcribe
the name, or only include the principal in the probate record. ie the
deceased, not the administrator, or others.
Remember the is from my experience with the US records, it may be
different in Britain or Europe.

----------------------------------

Post by knuttle
Thank you for that very detailed explanation.  This should help finding
them a bit easier.
Unfortunately, I don't think I worded my question too clearly, what I am
trying to find out, is, are the images in a file, in the date order of
the date the will was written or the date order of probate.
In other words, is the chronological order of the images for a
particular year, the date the will was written or the date probate was
granted?

Generally in chronological files the records are by date of probate, not
date written.

[cecilia]

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

My memory of PCC wills (but it was a long time ago), by probate date
within each book of probate copies.

[Geoff]

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

My memory of PCC wills (but it was a long time ago), by probate date
within each book of probate copies.

Post by Geoff

...

Thank you very much!

[Peter Johnson]

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

I know that you have an answer now, but in the UK looking at
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar would have given you
the answer.

[Charles Ellson]

On Sat, 18 Apr 2020 16:16:22 +0100, Peter Johnson

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

I know that you have an answer now, but in the UK

England and Wales.

Post by Peter Johnson
looking at
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar would have given you
the answer.

[Richard Smith]

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

I know that you have an answer now, but in the UK looking at
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar would have given you
the answer.

As the question was about "early probate records", I assume it didn't
refer to this calendar of wills proved since 1858 (when probate ceased
being handled in the ecclesiastical courts).

Richard

[Richard Smith]

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

I'm not sure which probate records you're talking about, but if it's
those from the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (PCC), they're not in
perfect chronological order. You have to understand that you're not
looking at original wills, but rather at near-contemporary copies which
court clerks copied into large registers of wills. Judging from the way
they're written up, I suspect a few weeks or even a month would often
elapse between probate and them being copied into the registers.
Presumably they had a stack of wills that they needed to copy and just
worked through that stack, without particular heed to the dates on the
document. This means they're more or less in order by probate, but not
exactly. I've needed to look up a 1719 will a few minutes ago, and took
the opportunity to look at the dates of probate on a number of
successive wills. They were in the sequence 4 Jan, 19 Jan, 4 Jan, 5
Jan, 8 Jan, 22 Jan, 22 Jan, 11 Jan, 28 Jan, 5 Jan, 18 Jan.

Richard

[Geoff]

Post by Geoff
Are the early probate records in FamilySearch chronologically in order by
the date the will was written, or by the probate date?

I'm not sure which probate records you're talking about, but if it's
those from the Prerogative Court of Canterbury (PCC), they're not in
perfect chronological order. You have to understand that you're not
looking at original wills, but rather at near-contemporary copies which
court clerks copied into large registers of wills. Judging from the way
they're written up, I suspect a few weeks or even a month would often
elapse between probate and them being copied into the registers.
Presumably they had a stack of wills that they needed to copy and just
worked through that stack, without particular heed to the dates on the
document. This means they're more or less in order by probate, but not
exactly. I've needed to look up a 1719 will a few minutes ago, and took
the opportunity to look at the dates of probate on a number of
successive wills. They were in the sequence 4 Jan, 19 Jan, 4 Jan, 5
Jan, 8 Jan, 22 Jan, 22 Jan, 11 Jan, 28 Jan, 5 Jan, 18 Jan.

Richard

Many thanks for all this info.