Discussion:
look-up blazon to find family
(too old to reply)
cecilia
2019-01-19 13:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Some years ago I could access a book in a local reference library that
had coats of arms in blazon order so one could determine the family
name.

I could still - if I could remember the names of the book or its
creator.
Richard van Schaik
2019-01-19 13:59:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by cecilia
Some years ago I could access a book in a local reference library that
had coats of arms in blazon order so one could determine the family
name.
I could still - if I could remember the names of the book or its
creator.
Maybe this helps?
https://heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/index.php?title=Heraldry_of_the_world
--
Richard van Schaik
***@THISgmail.com
http://www.fmavanschaik.nl/
The world is one big madhouse and this is main office.
cecilia
2019-01-19 19:45:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 14:59:17 +0100, Richard van Schaik
Post by Richard van Schaik
Post by cecilia
Some years ago I could access a book in a local reference library that
had coats of arms in blazon order so one could determine the family
name.
I could still - if I could remember the names of the book or its
creator.
Maybe this helps?
https://heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/index.php?title=Heraldry_of_the_world
Thank you - an interesting link.

What I want is source and period of the arms shown in
https://www.houseofnames.com/bottomley-family-crest for which I think
a description is along the lines of

Or on a Pile Gules between two Bees a Lion rampant of the Field

but searching for "pile gules" only produces 7 results in the
heraldry of the world, none of which are what I want.

and searching the web for
"pile gules" bees is not successful either

But my interest is only mild in the matter of the search - it's more
the book itself that I'm after, in case I later come across something
that I really am interested in.

I remember the book as being arranged in blazon order.rather thn
family order.

Not that it matters much.
Ian Goddard
2019-01-19 23:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by cecilia
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 14:59:17 +0100, Richard van Schaik
Post by Richard van Schaik
Post by cecilia
Some years ago I could access a book in a local reference library that
had coats of arms in blazon order so one could determine the family
name.
I could still - if I could remember the names of the book or its
creator.
Maybe this helps?
https://heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/index.php?title=Heraldry_of_the_world
Thank you - an interesting link.
What I want is source and period of the arms shown in
https://www.houseofnames.com/bottomley-family-crest for which I think
a description is along the lines of
If my Bottomley family is anything to go by their arms should
incorporate a plasterers trowel. By the time that the census records
start they were a burgeoning family of plasterers in the Colne Valley
(Slaithwaite etc.) and I suspect they had been for several generations,
maybe ever since they arrived from, as far as I can make out,
Scammonden. My 2xggfather (also an ancestor of the late June Whitfield)
migrated to Holmfirth - I suspect to get away from the competition with
the rest of the family and his descendants kept the trade extended well
into the C20th and maybe into the C21st.

This http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Bottomley is a bit more
informative about this crest. It sounds like a mill-owner's acquisition.


Ian
Ian Goddard
2019-01-20 00:03:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Goddard
It sounds like a mill-owner's acquisition.
I think we can go a bit further in the likely direction.
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1133118
"set well back from the road in an unusually open site, Buttershaw Mill
is a virtually unaltered example of a mid C19 large worsted mill. It was
built by the firm of S Bottomley and Brothers 1851-52, who first set up
business in self employing hand loom weavers, later moving to Brighouse
and then to Low Moor where they became established in the worsted trade.
The firm subsequently expanded into alpaca and mohair."

Also number 165 here
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TCWWTsgjYjQC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=halifax+mill+angora+bottomley&source=bl&ots=JQ4yRjOXbA&sig=ACfU3U2tephC8vxCm7kMd3srMIT1eVZ4_A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKgbOVgfvfAhUjt3EKHao9Cd8Q6AEINTAL#v=onepage&q=halifax%20mill%20angora%20bottomley&f=false

"Bottomley and sons, Shelf, Halifax...Figured Angora...composed of
mohair and solk"

These seem to explain the shuttle and the goat (Angora, not Angola!.

Buttershaw is close to Shelf although Bradford has since expanded to
enclose the latter.

I note that there's a pub called the Bottomleys Arms at Shelf although
the "arms" on the website are different so it might just commemorate a
well-known local family without any awareness of the actual arms. Looks
OK - maybe a visit is called for.

Ian
cecilia
2019-01-20 17:05:37 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 00:03:25 +0000, Ian Goddard
Post by Ian Goddard
Post by Ian Goddard
It sounds like a mill-owner's acquisition.
I think we can go a bit further in the likely direction.
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1133118
"set well back from the road in an unusually open site, Buttershaw Mill
is a virtually unaltered example of a mid C19 large worsted mill. It was
built by the firm of S Bottomley and Brothers 1851-52, who first set up
business in self employing hand loom weavers, later moving to Brighouse
and then to Low Moor where they became established in the worsted trade.
The firm subsequently expanded into alpaca and mohair."
Also number 165 here
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TCWWTsgjYjQC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=halifax+mill+angora+bottomley&source=bl&ots=JQ4yRjOXbA&sig=ACfU3U2tephC8vxCm7kMd3srMIT1eVZ4_A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKgbOVgfvfAhUjt3EKHao9Cd8Q6AEINTAL#v=onepage&q=halifax%20mill%20angora%20bottomley&f=false
"Bottomley and sons, Shelf, Halifax...Figured Angora...composed of
mohair and solk"
These seem to explain the shuttle and the goat (Angora, not Angola!.
Buttershaw is close to Shelf although Bradford has since expanded to
enclose the latter.
I note that there's a pub called the Bottomleys Arms at Shelf although
the "arms" on the website are different so it might just commemorate a
well-known local family without any awareness of the actual arms. Looks
OK - maybe a visit is called for.
Thank you very much. Ian.

The Bottomley that raised the question knows all his Bottomley tree
back to a mill worker (ending up as a storeman) who declared in
censuses that he was born in Saddleworth in about 1816. Family lore
says he was a sort of cousin (unveried, but accepted by members of
both families in the early 20C) of the Rev Joseph Bottomley (for him,
see towards the end of
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Halifax/SowerbyCongChurch)
whose birth was said to be 2 November 1806 Saddleworth (source said to
be his biography in the Northern Baptist College Archives - unverified
by anyone I know) - his memorial stone
http://www.flickr.com/photos/chairman8/6408100077/sizes/l/in/photostream/
has 1807.

S Bottomley and Brothers might well be the family to whom the arms
were granted (certainly more likelihood than the Rev Joseph or the
Saddlleworth-born mill-worker) - I'll pass the suiggestion along.
Ian Goddard
2019-01-20 22:31:36 UTC
Permalink
I've been taking a look at the notion from the houseofnames site that
the Bottomleys had a "family seat" at Bottomley. They define the term
as "the principal manor of a medieval lord" and "normally an elegant
country mansion" or "a manor house". ROFL.

Bottomley wasn't even a township (but see below) in Domesday; it was a
minor hamlet that didn't even appear by name. It became part of the
Warrens' manor of Wakefield and eventually part of the "inferior manor"
(i.e. a sublet township) of Barkisland. In Domesday it would have been
part of Sorebi (Sowerby) one of the several berewicks which formed the
western end of the manor.

The name first appears as a place early in the surviving manorial rolls,
on 23 My 1275:

SOUREBY. — The townships [villate] of Bothemlei and Barkesland have
respite until the Steward's coming to Sourby, to make fine for
withdrawing from suit at the mill of Soland,

It's not unknown elsewhere in the rolls for hamlets to be written up as
if they were townships. Villata seems to be generally used for any
definable community.

Bottomley first appears in connection with a personal name in the same
year in the court on the Friday in Whit week (I think 14 Jun):

RASTRICK.— Warin de Marcheden gives 12d. for replevying 2 stots and a
foal, which were seized in the Earl's liberty, until the next Court, and
also that he will then come, and prove them by true men to be his
beasts; pledges, Walter de Marcheden and Hugh de Bothemley.

The de Bottomleys (in all their medieval spelling variations) would have
been manorial copyhold tenants just like the de Littlewoods and the de
Hinchliffes of Holmfirth. The names wouldn't have become heriditary
surnames until the following century.

Ian
Richard Smith
2019-01-19 18:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by cecilia
Some years ago I could access a book in a local reference library that
had coats of arms in blazon order so one could determine the family
name.
I could still - if I could remember the names of the book or its
creator.
A book which lists coats of arms in some sort of systematic order by the
heraldic elements they contain is called an "ordinary of arms".

There are several well-known ordinaries of arms that are now out of
copyright and available online. These include Papworth's Ordinary of
British Armorials:

https://archive.org/details/alphabeticaldicta01papw/

There's also Berry's Encyclopædia Heraldica, published in five volumes:

https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaher01berr/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopdiaher21berr/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopdiaher22berr/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaher03berr/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaher04berr/

However the most important ordinary of arms is probably Woodcock's
Dictionary of British Arms, published in four volumes this century. It
is definitely not available online, but may be available in a good
reference library.

Richard
cecilia
2019-01-19 20:09:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Jan 2019 18:41:37 +0000, Richard Smith
Post by Richard Smith
Post by cecilia
Some years ago I could access a book in a local reference library that
had coats of arms in blazon order so one could determine the family
name.
I could still - if I could remember the names of the book or its
creator.
A book which lists coats of arms in some sort of systematic order by the
heraldic elements they contain is called an "ordinary of arms".
There are several well-known ordinaries of arms that are now out of
copyright and available online. These include Papworth's Ordinary of
https://archive.org/details/alphabeticaldicta01papw/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaher01berr/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopdiaher21berr/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopdiaher22berr/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaher03berr/
https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediaher04berr/
However the most important ordinary of arms is probably Woodcock's
Dictionary of British Arms, published in four volumes this century. It
is definitely not available online, but may be available in a good
reference library.
Richard
Papworth is the book (and ordinary the noun) that I could not
remember. And having it online meant that I have quickly established
that it does not include many "ipile gu" items and none of them are
what I am looking for.

Thank you for the other references - I shall check out all of Berry's
Encyclopædia Heraldica (nothing in the first) and consider Woodcock -
it seems possible that I could get at the first 3 voumes locally if I
could persuade a local museum to play ball.

I am (for no particular reason) fairly convinced that the arms at
House of Names are post-medieval, so would not be surprised to find
that searches fail using the references you so kindly supplied.

But at least Inow know what the book I saw is called, and how to get
hold of it without having to go to the library. Thank you.
Richard Smith
2019-01-20 00:56:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by cecilia
Thank you for the other references - I shall check out all of Berry's
Encyclopædia Heraldica (nothing in the first) and consider Woodcock -
it seems possible that I could get at the first 3 voumes locally if I
could persuade a local museum to play ball.
Woodcock's Dictionary of British Arms is good for the mediæval period,
but not after then. My copy is to hand, so if there's something in
particular you want me to look up, and it isn't too difficult to find, I
can look it up.

Richard
Tim Powys-Lybbe
2019-01-31 20:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by cecilia
Some years ago I could access a book in a local reference library that
had coats of arms in blazon order so one could determine the family
name.
I could still - if I could remember the names of the book or its
creator.
Papworth's "Ordinary of British Armorials" obtainable from archive.org
for free as "An alphabetical dictionary of coats of arms belonging to
families in Great Britain and Ireland". Note that this is in two volumes
while later editions are in one volumes but they all date back to the
first edition of 1874. It is not well referenced.

For medieval arms the four volume "Dictionary of British Arms: Medieval
Ordinary" is well referenced and generally excellent. But it costs,
though you should still be able to get it on library loans.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe ***@powys.org
for a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
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