Moving Surrey to North Wales C18

[Ruth Wilson]

Hi all,

Seeing as John has pointed out how quiet it is (where is everyone? what
is the current alternative to newsgroups?) I thought I would post a query.

My husband's ancestors, surname Covell, moved from Surrey (Mitcham) to
Bodfari in Flintshire/Denbighshire sometime in tbe 1770s (baptised
children Surrey 1769, Bodfari 1780).

Now, I know that people moved around more than is popularly believed,
and I know there were push and pull effects, so I understand the
principle. But what made someone move from Surrey to Bodfari. It seems a
fairly obscure place to go. I can't see any Welsh connections of the
family before this.

I have tried to check up if there was a landowner with holdings in both
places, as I have seen that behind a cross-country move, but I haven't
found anything yet.

I seem to remember reading that Surrey was not a very prosperous county
at that time - would enclosure have been a factor pushing them out? -
and maybe North Wales was a fresh start. They did actually own land
there according to the tithe maps of 1830 and owned other property
according to a couple of family wills. I don't, however, know of the
family situation while in Surrey (did they have to sell up, was it a
step up or down?)

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? e.g. why this specific move and
how might they have found out about it? Any other interesting
observations welcome!

Ruth

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Ruth Wilson
Hi all,
Seeing as John has pointed out how quiet it is (where is everyone? what
is the current alternative to newsgroups?)

The ghastly but uniquitous Facebook.

What was the occupation of the wage earner before and after the move?
The ability or lack of it to make a living is what prompted most moves.
There was slate quarrying in Bodfari.

[Ruth Wilson]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Ruth Wilson
Hi all,
Seeing as John has pointed out how quiet it is (where is everyone?
what is the current alternative to newsgroups?)

The ghastly but uniquitous Facebook.
What was the occupation of the wage earner before and after the move?
The ability or lack of it to make a living is what prompted most moves.
 There was slate quarrying in Bodfari.

Thank-you. The existence of alternative employment is a very valid
point. I'm not sure if you are correct in there being slate, but there
were certainly quarries in Bodfari. Although on C19 entries the
occupations were farmer, (earlier ones are silent on the matter ...)
this wouldn't preclude them quarrying or earning from another source.

Looking at quarrying led me to find out that a local landowner
established a bleachworks, partly to support his Irish tenants, but also
to provide some work in Bodfari. The dates are just after the family
arrived, but of course, this doesn't mean there were not efforts at 'job
creation' in the decade before.

Thank-you again. You have given my thoughts a nudge in a new direction,
which is what I was hoping for!

(and I have yet to find a sensible and intelligent family history group
on FB!)

Ruth

[john]

Post by Ruth Wilson
Hi all,
Seeing as John has pointed out how quiet it is (where is everyone? what
is the current alternative to newsgroups?) I thought I would post a query.
My husband's ancestors, surname Covell, moved from Surrey (Mitcham) to
Bodfari in Flintshire/Denbighshire sometime in tbe 1770s (baptised
children Surrey 1769, Bodfari 1780).
Now, I know that people moved around more than is popularly believed,
and I know there were push and pull effects, so I understand the
principle. But what made someone move from Surrey to Bodfari. It seems a
fairly obscure place to go. I can't see any Welsh connections of the
family before this.
I have tried to check up if there was a landowner with holdings in both
places, as I have seen that behind a cross-country move, but I haven't
found anything yet.
I seem to remember reading that Surrey was not a very prosperous county
at that time - would enclosure have been a factor pushing them out? -
and maybe North Wales was a fresh start. They did actually own land
there according to the tithe maps of 1830 and owned other property
according to a couple of family wills. I don't, however, know of the
family situation while in Surrey (did they have to sell up, was it a
step up or down?)
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? e.g. why this specific move and
how might they have found out about it? Any other interesting
observations welcome!
Ruth

There are a few personal trees on Ancestry, but no real further
information except possibly John remarried in 1776 and a further child
of the first marriage. Did his wife inherit land?

There are some Covell in 1841/1851 who are farmers in Bodfari and nearby
St Asaph. William in 1851 was born c1870 in "Michum", Surrey.

Marriage records would possibly identify the father's occupation but
according to GENUKI the parish records are only on microfilm. Some have
been transcribed/published by the Clwyd Family History Society's
Resource Centre http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk The 1754-1812 marriage
records are available.

[Ruth Wilson]

Post by john
There are a few personal trees on Ancestry, but no real further
information except possibly John remarried in 1776 and a further child
of the first marriage.  Did his wife inherit land?
There are some Covell in 1841/1851 who are farmers in Bodfari and nearby
St Asaph. William in 1851 was born c1870 in "Michum", Surrey.
Marriage records would possibly identify the father's occupation but
according to GENUKI the parish records are only on microfilm. Some have
been transcribed/published by the Clwyd Family History Society's
Resource Centre http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk The 1754-1812 marriage
records are available.

Thanks for looking, John. One of those trees is possibly mine. I am
fairly confident with the research I have done on the family in North
Wales - it's an uncommon surname there, thank goodness! It is the whys
and wherefores of the move that I am curious about at the moment, but
it's all grist to the mill.

Ruth

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Ruth Wilson
Hi all,
Seeing as John has pointed out how quiet it is (where is everyone? what
is the current alternative to newsgroups?) I thought I would post a query.

I guess Twitter and Facebook (and all their relatives) for general chat,
and forums (fora) for specialist interests.

Post by Ruth Wilson
My husband's ancestors, surname Covell, moved from Surrey (Mitcham) to
Bodfari in Flintshire/Denbighshire sometime in tbe 1770s (baptised
children Surrey 1769, Bodfari 1780).
Now, I know that people moved around more than is popularly believed,
and I know there were push and pull effects, so I understand the
principle. But what made someone move from Surrey to Bodfari. It seems
a fairly obscure place to go. I can't see any Welsh connections of the
family before this.

Have you found it on Google Maps? I find that often useful.

Post by Ruth Wilson
I have tried to check up if there was a landowner with holdings in both
places, as I have seen that behind a cross-country move, but I haven't
found anything yet.
I seem to remember reading that Surrey was not a very prosperous county

My ancestors - at least, some of them (Neave/Neve/le Neve) moved from
Norfolk to Northumberland, I think because Norfolk was not very
promising (agriculture, which doesn't provide a growing jobs situation),
but that was around the time mining was getting going - especially in
Northumberland and Durham; I _think_ that was a little later than your
move. Could that be a reason though? I know mining was big in Wales at
times, but I don't know which parts (more in the south though I think),
nor where Bodfari is.

Post by Ruth Wilson
at that time - would enclosure have been a factor pushing them out? -

(No idea I'm afraid; my British history's not what it ought to be! I
associate the disruption caused by enclosures more with Scotland and
Ireland, but no reason why it shouldn't disturb people elsewhere.)

Post by Ruth Wilson
and maybe North Wales was a fresh start. They did actually own land
there according to the tithe maps of 1830 and owned other property

Though that's 50 years after the move; if they'd settled and worked
hard, they might have earned enough to buy some by then.

Post by Ruth Wilson
according to a couple of family wills. I don't, however, know of the
family situation while in Surrey (did they have to sell up, was it a
step up or down?)

Any death dates? My GGGM went to Northumberland to join relatives
already there (at least I think that's what she did), it looks like
because her husband died young leaving her young and with a brood to
look after. (He was a builder - family lore is he fell off a ladder.)

Post by Ruth Wilson
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? e.g. why this specific move and
how might they have found out about it? Any other interesting
observations welcome!

Sorry no, guesswork only! Looking at ages of those moving might give
some ideas - were they fit young men (who could go into mining), say?
Also, of course, look at (at least stated) occupations - around that
period, on baptism records (son of Fred Smith, farmer), though marriages
_sometimes_ say, and marriage _bonds_ do too - but I expect you've
already done that.

Post by Ruth Wilson
Ruth

(I have some around the Flintshire/Cheshire border, but since the name
is mainly Hughes, I think they're from the area.)

John

[Ian Goddard]

But what made someone move from Surrey to Bodfari. It seems a fairly
obscure place to go.

Is it possible some landowner had properties in both places and
encouraged a tenant to move between them? I've seen evidence of this in
medieval and Tudor times but I suppose it could be possible at alater time.

Ian

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Ian Goddard

But what made someone move from Surrey to Bodfari. It seems a fairly
obscure place to go.

Is it possible some landowner had properties in both places and
encouraged a tenant to move between them?  I've seen evidence of this in
medieval and Tudor times but I suppose it could be possible at alater time.

It is certainly the case with domestic servants right up till the 20th
century.

[MB]

Post by Ruth Wilson
Seeing as John has pointed out how quiet it is (where is everyone? what
is the current alternative to newsgroups?) I thought I would post a query.

Don't forget ROOTSCHAT


If there is anyone in the Gwynedd Archive you ask them and also ask on
the various mailing lists covering North Wales - all on GROUPS.IO now

If you do not have access to the British Newspaper Archive then there is
always the newspaper archive at the NLW.

[Ruth Wilson]

Post by MB

Post by Ruth Wilson
Seeing as John has pointed out how quiet it is (where is everyone?
what is the current alternative to newsgroups?) I thought I would post
a query.

Don't forget ROOTSCHAT
If there is anyone in the Gwynedd Archive you ask them and also ask on
the various mailing lists covering North Wales - all on GROUPS.IO now
If you do not have access to the British Newspaper Archive then there is
always the newspaper archive at the NLW.

Thanks for pointing out Rootschat. I come across it occasionally on a
Google search, but I had assumed it had gone the way of Rootsweb - don't
assume!

Ruth