DNA

[Ron Taylor]

I'm havig a torrid tme not finding links between those who should be linked.

F

Question:

I have a male who in 1700s fathered male & female kids in England during
1770/80

I know their (alleged) ancestors at present day and they are registered
on Ancestry DNA database,

He then moves to America where he has more kids - different mother.

Again I know the alleged modern day descendants.

My question is "should the UK & US descendants show as being related
through their DNA submissions to Ancestry or Findmypast

[john]

Post by Ron Taylor
I'm havig a torrid tme not finding links between those who should be linked.
F
I have a male who in 1700s fathered male & female kids in England during
1770/80
I know their (alleged) ancestors at present day and they are registered
on Ancestry DNA database,
He then moves to America where he has more kids - different mother.
Again I know the alleged modern day descendants.
My question is "should the UK & US descendants show as being related
through their DNA submissions to Ancestry or Findmypast

How many generations are you examining?

Have you tried searching for something like "how many generations does
DNA testing go back"

As an example, this article will give you some idea
https://tinyurl.com/ycq52td9

[r***@yahoo.co.uk]

18 June 2020 at 14:48, Ron Taylor wrote:
DNA (at least in part)

My question is "should the UK & US descendants show as being related through
their DNA submissions to Ancestry or Findmypast

If they are related yes, but as many if not all these "Send us your DNA" sites
only want to sale data to researchers (or worse insurance companies) or just
make money, the reports they send back are works of fiction (in most cases)

I did see a post (not sure where now so make your own mind up) of a pair of
twins (maybe identical can't remember) who sent seperate samples to one of
these sites and got totally different reports back (One was said to be Northern
European / Native American the other Mediterranean / Oriental)

Just my 2d

[knuttle]

Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
DNA (at least in part)

My question is "should the UK & US descendants show as being related through
their DNA submissions to Ancestry or Findmypast

If they are related yes, but as many if not all these "Send us your DNA" sites
only want to sale data to researchers (or worse insurance companies) or just
make money, the reports they send back are works of fiction (in most cases)
I did see a post (not sure where now so make your own mind up) of a pair of
twins (maybe identical can't remember) who sent seperate samples to one of
these sites and got totally different reports back (One was said to be Northern
European / Native American the other Mediterranean / Oriental)
Just my 2d

If a person submits DNA for testing, they are in for a disappointment if
it is done to determine their ethnicity. DNA is a biological factor and
has nothing to do with the social environment the person, or his
ancestors were in.

If there existed a group of Chinese living in Europe for several
generation, and you matched that group, your DNA would show Chinese
ancestors not European ancestry.

However if you have a DNA Match to a person it is a fact.

[MB]

Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
If they are related yes, but as many if not all these "Send us your DNA" sites
only want to sale data to researchers (or worse insurance companies) or just
make money, the reports they send back are works of fiction (in most cases)
I did see a post (not sure where now so make your own mind up) of a pair of
twins (maybe identical can't remember) who sent seperate samples to one of
these sites and got totally different reports back (One was said to be Northern
European / Native American the other Mediterranean / Oriental)

They sell the tests initially on the ethnicity but most people seriously
interested in family history do not pay much attention to it. It
usually tells you what you already know and often misses or does not
recognise major parts of your ethnicity.

You can get that you have a small percentage of something obscure but
there is usually no way of know where it came from.

[Ian Goddard]

Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
I did see a post (not sure where now so make your own mind up) of a pair of
twins (maybe identical can't remember) who sent seperate samples to one of
these sites and got totally different reports back (One was said to be Northern
European / Native American the other Mediterranean / Oriental)

Sequencing doesn't cover all the genome and different bits will be
missing from each of the submissions. A person to person match will be
made on sequences common to both sets of results. The sequences entered
for the "origins" matching will be different sub-sequences of the entire
chromosome. The different results that come out of it tells you
something about the fragility of the claimed origin allocation but it
tells you nothing about person to person matching.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
DNA (at least in part)

My question is "should the UK & US descendants show as being related through
their DNA submissions to Ancestry or Findmypast

If they are related yes, but as many if not all these "Send us your DNA" sites
only want to sale data to researchers (or worse insurance companies) or just
make money, the reports they send back are works of fiction (in most cases)
I did see a post (not sure where now so make your own mind up) of a pair of
twins (maybe identical can't remember) who sent seperate samples to one of
these sites and got totally different reports back (One was said to be Northern
European / Native American the other Mediterranean / Oriental)

I would be interested (but not sufficiently interested to get
permission from their parents to actually try it) so see what results
would come back if my twin grandchildren were tested. They are not
identical (and of different sexes), and are different in every possible
way: my grandson is fair and very British-looking (he looks very like
me at the same age); my granddaughter is dark and exotic-looking. Their
behaviour patterns are also very different. However, all that may be
just skin-deep, as the characters we notice are the ones we can see,
and 99% of the underlying genomes may be essentially the same.
Incidentally, they have grandparents from three continents and four
countries.

[r***@yahoo.co.uk]

22 June 2020 at 11:11, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
Re: DNA (at least in part)

Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
I did see a post (not sure where now so make your own mind up) of a pair of
twins (maybe identical can't remember) who sent seperate samples to one of
these sites and got totally different reports back (One was said to be
Northern European / Native American the other Mediterranean / Oriental)

I would be interested (but not sufficiently interested to get permission from
their parents to actually try it) so see what results would come back if my
twin grandchildren were tested.

If I were not so sceptical I would also be intrested in those results, I think
that DNA has value (that's why companies want it ;-<) but not for the purpose
they claim

[Richard Smith]

Post by r***@yahoo.co.uk
I did see a post (not sure where now so make your own mind up) of a pair of
twins (maybe identical can't remember) who sent seperate samples to one of
these sites and got totally different reports back (One was said to be Northern
European / Native American the other Mediterranean / Oriental)

I think either the story has become exaggerated or it's from quite a
long time ago. These days, these ethnic origins reports tend to be
accurate to within, say, 5% at a continent level. I really wouldn't
expect one twin to show a non-trivial amount of Oriental ancestry where
the other twin's shows none and instead finds a non-trivial amount of
Native American ancestry, at least not if the test was done in the last
few years. But I could easily imagine one showing substantial French
ancestry where the other says German, ore trace amounts of all sorts of
bizarre things.

Richard

[Ruth Wilson]

Post by Ron Taylor
I'm havig a torrid tme not finding links between those who should be linked.
F
I have a male who in 1700s fathered male & female kids in England during
1770/80
I know their (alleged) ancestors at present day and they are registered
on Ancestry DNA database,
He then moves to America where he has more kids - different mother.
Again I know the alleged modern day descendants.
My question is "should the UK & US descendants show as being related
through their DNA submissions to Ancestry or Findmypast

I'm interested in these ideas too. I know lots of history, but not much
science!
I am sure you will get more knowledgeable answers too, but I have
recently seen someone who I have been in contact with for many years on
Ancestry DNA. Good documentary research shows us as being 3rd cousins
once removed (we are both descended from my 2xgt granparents). The DNA
profile, however, shows her as being more distantly related than this as
5-8th cousin. It was just luck I scrolled down and recognised her name
as I usually only focus on those with a more solid link (I read
somewhere recently that 30cM or less you can't be sure of a relationship
- but this shows it is not necessarily the case). I also read that the
random way we inherit 50% DNA means that in 200 years (how many
generations? 6?) you can have ancestors whose DNA you do not carry. The
Shared links with my 3rd cousin are all descended on 'my' side from my
gt-grandmother, not her brother, the ancestor of the cousin.
So, not very scientific, but I would think in your case over 250 years,
it could well be that there is no/little shared DNA (even considering
illegitimacy, etc)
Ruth

[Ian Goddard]

Post by Ron Taylor
I'm havig a torrid tme not finding links between those who should be linked.
F
I have a male who in 1700s fathered male & female kids in England during
1770/80
I know their (alleged) ancestors at present day and they are registered
on Ancestry DNA database,
He then moves to America where he has more kids - different mother.
Again I know the alleged modern day descendants.

Let's start with the basics. Setting aside the X, Y and mitochondrial
chromosomes we have two versions of every gene. One copy was inherited
from each parent and one copy - at random - will go to each child.
Randomness being what it is that means that half of the copies that one
child gets will be common to those that another child gets.

As half of the inherited genome comes from the father and half the
father's genome is shared by the siblings this means that a quarter of
each sibling's genome is the shared paternal copy.

For full siblings there will be a similar sharing of maternal genes.
When we compare your US and UK half siblings, however there are no
common maternal genes so there'd only be a 25% match between a UK and a
US child.

In each succeeding generation the proportion of the original paternal
genome gets halved again. Between the late C18th and present
generations the shared paternal inheritance is going to be pretty small
and, unless there's some rare variant from the common ancestor shared
between two descendants, not readily identifiable. What I've just
described is the autosomal DNA.

We can discount mitochondrial DNA as that descends only in the female
line. None of the father's mDNA is going to end up in his children let
alone more remote descendants.

Where you would expect to find continuity is in the Y chromosomes which
are conserved but only pass down the male line. Apart from any
mutations which might have occurred you should expect to find a Y DNA
match in alleged male line descendants

If you have some alleged male line descendants and no matches then
somebody's not who you think they are. You may have followed the wrong
line, you might have children being brought up as his own by a step
father, you might have adoptees or you might have illegitimacy.

[cecilia]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 17:13:43 +0100, Ian Goddard

Post by Ian Goddard
[...]
If you have some alleged male line descendants and no matches then
somebody's not who you think they are. You may have followed the wrong
line, you might have children being brought up as his own by a step
father, you might have adoptees or you might have illegitimacy.

Or you might have a marriage where the children inherited from , and
took the name of, the mother's family.