How to find a family probably on holiday abroad in the 1911 Census?

[Chris Dickinson]

I can't find a family in 1911 that appears in previous censuses. This census was, I understand, taken 02-04-1911, so a Spring break seems entirely possible.

They are wealthy, and the head of the family died in 1912 (so a possible 'health' holiday). The eldest daughter, now married, was with her husband in what looks like a holiday 'cottage' in Brockenhurst, Hampshire.

So, are there sources that might give an answer? I'm not subscribed to FindMyPast, etc., but know that I have to take the plunge eventually to pick up on things like this - and this might influence my subscription.

In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and resident in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged 53, and his two daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know about their past and futures, so please don't waste your time in looking that up (unless you find Ina when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a circus!)

Those of you who have long memories may remember helping me out ten years ago on the 'bouncing Ina' in this thread:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.britain/ina$20frances$20davenport%7Csort:date/soc.genealogy.britain/qNbN2HB7THo/rh5zanG6ClMJ

or here:

https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/***@rootsweb.com/thread/2864729/


Thanks,

Chris

[Steven Gibbs]

Post by Chris Dickinson
In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and
resident in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged
53, and his two daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and
Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know about their past and futures, so
please don't waste your time in looking that up (unless you find Ina
when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a circus!)

I can't see them on Ancestry. George's 1912 obit in the Staffordshire
Sentinel gives him as "of Foxlowe". Foxlowe in the 1911 census is
occupied only by four servants, two of which have the surname Snow and
are from Cotton and so might be sisters of the Annie Snow who is one of
the family servants in 1901. Assuming this is the family residence, it
appears they are away from home.

Steven

[Chris Dickinson]

Post by Steven Gibbs

Post by Chris Dickinson
In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and
resident in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged
53, and his two daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and
Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know about their past and futures, so
please don't waste your time in looking that up (unless you find Ina
when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a circus!)

I can't see them on Ancestry. George's 1912 obit in the Staffordshire
Sentinel gives him as "of Foxlowe". Foxlowe in the 1911 census is
occupied only by four servants, two of which have the surname Snow and
are from Cotton and so might be sisters of the Annie Snow who is one of
the family servants in 1901. Assuming this is the family residence, it
appears they are away from home.
Steven

Thank you.

Yes, Foxlowe was the residence. There's a picture of it here:

https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/101268572-foxlowe-leek#.W4ZmQ_ZFyUk

They moved out in 1914, and went to Bournemouth.

I haven't yet attempted to research the servants, though that would be an interesting thing to do. The family were only second-generation wealthy, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find all sorts of family ties.

Chris

[unknown]

+ User FidoNet address: 1:124/5016
Steven wrote:
S> From: Steven Gibbs <***@sgibbs1.freeserve.co.uk>
S>

Post by Chris Dickinson
In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and
resident in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged
53, and his two daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and
Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know about their past and futures, so
please don't waste your time in looking that up (unless you find Ina
when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a circus!)

S>
S> I can't see them on Ancestry. George's 1912 obit in the Staffordshire
S> Sentinel gives him as "of Foxlowe". Foxlowe in the 1911 census is
S> occupied only by four servants, two of which have the surname Snow and
S> are from Cotton and so might be sisters of the Annie Snow who is one of
S> the family servants in 1901. Assuming this is the family residence, it
S> appears they are away from home.

Another newspapers lists it as Foxe Lowe so worth keeping in mind if
searching for a place name. (Staffordshire Advertiser 15 July 1911).
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+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Chris Dickinson]

Post by unknown
Another newspapers lists it as Foxe Lowe so worth keeping in mind if
searching for a place name. (Staffordshire Advertiser 15 July 1911).

Useful to know. Thank you.

There is a more attractive view of the building here:

https://madwomanwithacamera.wordpress.com/tag/foxlowe/

The family, though, weren't there for long - 1893-1914.

Chris

[john]

Post by Chris Dickinson
I can't find a family in 1911 that appears in previous censuses. This census was, I understand, taken 02-04-1911, so a Spring break seems entirely possible.
They are wealthy, and the head of the family died in 1912 (so a possible 'health' holiday). The eldest daughter, now married, was with her husband in what looks like a holiday 'cottage' in Brockenhurst, Hampshire.
So, are there sources that might give an answer? I'm not subscribed to FindMyPast, etc., but know that I have to take the plunge eventually to pick up on things like this - and this might influence my subscription.

snip>

Post by Chris Dickinson
Thanks,
Chris

Do you use familysearch.org? It has a lot of the index records from
FindMyPast, including the census records but links to FMP for the images.

[Chris Dickinson]

Post by john

Post by Chris Dickinson
I can't find a family in 1911 that appears in previous censuses. This census was, I understand, taken 02-04-1911, so a Spring break seems entirely possible.
They are wealthy, and the head of the family died in 1912 (so a possible 'health' holiday). The eldest daughter, now married, was with her husband in what looks like a holiday 'cottage' in Brockenhurst, Hampshire.
So, are there sources that might give an answer? I'm not subscribed to FindMyPast, etc., but know that I have to take the plunge eventually to pick up on things like this - and this might influence my subscription.

snip>

Post by Chris Dickinson
Thanks,
Chris

Do you use familysearch.org? It has a lot of the index records from
FindMyPast, including the census records but links to FMP for the images.

Yes, I do. One of the reasons for subscribing would be to access those images.

Chris

[unknown]

+ User FidoNet address: 1:124/5016
C> In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and reside=
C> nt in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged 53, and his tw=
C> o daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know abo=
C> ut their past and futures, so please don't waste your time in looking that =
C> up (unless you find Ina when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a=
C> circus!)

Rather than posting ages, it would be best to post birth years. It's less
ambiguous.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The FidoNet News Gate (Huntsville, AL - USA) +
+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Chris Dickinson]

Post by unknown
+ User FidoNet address: 1:124/5016
C> In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and reside=
C> nt in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged 53, and his tw=
C> o daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know abo=
C> ut their past and futures, so please don't waste your time in looking that =
C> up (unless you find Ina when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a=
C> circus!)
Rather than posting ages, it would be best to post birth years. It's less
ambiguous.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The FidoNet News Gate (Huntsville, AL - USA) +
+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Right-ho. The ages that I gave were 10 years on from the 1901 Census.

Actual years: George (1852), Sarah (1856), Ina (1891), Margot (1893).

Chris

[Chris Pitt Lewis]

Post by Chris Dickinson
I can't find a family in 1911 that appears in previous censuses. This census was, I understand, taken 02-04-1911, so a Spring break seems entirely possible.
They are wealthy, and the head of the family died in 1912 (so a possible 'health' holiday). The eldest daughter, now married, was with her husband in what looks like a holiday 'cottage' in Brockenhurst, Hampshire.
So, are there sources that might give an answer? I'm not subscribed to FindMyPast, etc., but know that I have to take the plunge eventually to pick up on things like this - and this might influence my subscription.
In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and resident in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged 53, and his two daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know about their past and futures, so please don't waste your time in looking that up (unless you find Ina when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a circus!)

At this period the newspapers sometimes reported the comings and goings
of socially prominent people ("Mr & Mrs George Davenport have returned
from holiday in Biarritz" or the like). A trawl through the local press,
or, if they were part of London Society, even the Court page of The
Times, might be worth a try.

[Chris Dickinson]

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Chris Dickinson
I can't find a family in 1911 that appears in previous censuses. This census was, I understand, taken 02-04-1911, so a Spring break seems entirely possible.
They are wealthy, and the head of the family died in 1912 (so a possible 'health' holiday). The eldest daughter, now married, was with her husband in what looks like a holiday 'cottage' in Brockenhurst, Hampshire.
So, are there sources that might give an answer? I'm not subscribed to FindMyPast, etc., but know that I have to take the plunge eventually to pick up on things like this - and this might influence my subscription.
In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and resident in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged 53, and his two daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know about their past and futures, so please don't waste your time in looking that up (unless you find Ina when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a circus!)

At this period the newspapers sometimes reported the comings and goings
of socially prominent people ("Mr & Mrs George Davenport have returned
from holiday in Biarritz" or the like). A trawl through the local press,
or, if they were part of London Society, even the Court page of The
Times, might be worth a try.
--
Chris Pitt Lewis
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Chris

Thanks for that thought. Looks like I need to sign up to The Times archive (or spend a day at the local library looking through it). Grr, The Times (on its current offer) requires a phone call rather than a simple internet subscription. Why can't they move into the 21st Century?

Chris

[john]

On Wednesday, 29 August 2018 19:51:23 UTC+1, Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Chris Dickinson
I can't find a family in 1911 that appears in previous censuses.
This census was, I understand, taken 02-04-1911, so a Spring
break seems entirely possible.
They are wealthy, and the head of the family died in 1912 (so a
possible 'health' holiday). The eldest daughter, now married, was
with her husband in what looks like a holiday 'cottage' in
Brockenhurst, Hampshire.
So, are there sources that might give an answer? I'm not
subscribed to FindMyPast, etc., but know that I have to take the
plunge eventually to pick up on things like this - and this might
influence my subscription.
In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born
and resident in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah,
aged 53, and his two daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and
Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know about their past and futures, so
please don't waste your time in looking that up (unless you find
Ina when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a circus!)

At this period the newspapers sometimes reported the comings and
goings of socially prominent people ("Mr & Mrs George Davenport
have returned from holiday in Biarritz" or the like). A trawl
through the local press, or, if they were part of London Society,
even the Court page of The Times, might be worth a try.
-- Chris Pitt Lewis
--- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Chris
Thanks for that thought. Looks like I need to sign up to The Times
archive (or spend a day at the local library looking through it).
Grr, The Times (on its current offer) requires a phone call rather
than a simple internet subscription. Why can't they move into the
21st Century?
Chris

I had a quick look at the British National Archive for "George Davenport"
in 1911 and didn't see anything concerning travel.

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by john
I had a quick look at the British National Archive for "George Davenport"
in 1911 and didn't see anything concerning travel.

But I looked at FMP's newspaper collection and found this:

leek action for libel, (; ERH FADS, At the Stafford Amiss., oa
Wednesday, before Mr.
Justice Lawrence, an action for libel was brought bi Mr. George
Davenport, silk manufacturer, of Leek,
against Mr. William Sadingten Watson, also a silk manufacturer, of Leek,
and a member of...”
15 July 1911 - Macclesfield Courier and Herald, Congieton Gazette,
Stockport...

which may or may not be of interest.

[Chris Dickinson]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by john
I had a quick look at the British National Archive for "George Davenport"
in 1911 and didn't see anything concerning travel.

leek action for libel, (; ERH FADS, At the Stafford Amiss., oa
Wednesday, before Mr.
Justice Lawrence, an action for libel was brought bi Mr. George
Davenport, silk manufacturer, of Leek,
against Mr. William Sadingten Watson, also a silk manufacturer, of Leek,
and a member of...”
15 July 1911 - Macclesfield Courier and Herald, Congieton Gazette,
Stockport...
which may or may not be of interest.
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/

Thank you.

I hadn't noticed that. George was a silk manufacturer. Hmm, George's niece, Minnie, married a Sydney Montague Watson in 1905, so thst'a a possible connection.

Chris

[john]

Post by john
I had a quick look at the British National Archive for "George Davenport"
in 1911 and didn't see anything concerning travel.

leek action for libel,    (; ERH FADS, At the Stafford Amiss., oa
Wednesday, before Mr.
Justice Lawrence, an action for libel was brought bi Mr. George
Davenport, silk manufacturer, of Leek,
against Mr. William Sadingten Watson, also a silk manufacturer, of Leek,
and a member of...”
15 July 1911 - Macclesfield Courier and Herald, Congieton Gazette,
Stockport...
which may or may not be of interest.

I saw that as well, but, as I said, "I didn't see anything concerning
travel". The original post stated "I know about their past and futures,
so please don't waste your time in looking that up"

[Chris Dickinson]

Post by john

On Wednesday, 29 August 2018 19:51:23 UTC+1, Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Chris Dickinson
I can't find a family in 1911 that appears in previous censuses.
This census was, I understand, taken 02-04-1911, so a Spring
break seems entirely possible.
They are wealthy, and the head of the family died in 1912 (so a
possible 'health' holiday). The eldest daughter, now married, was
with her husband in what looks like a holiday 'cottage' in
Brockenhurst, Hampshire.
So, are there sources that might give an answer? I'm not
subscribed to FindMyPast, etc., but know that I have to take the
plunge eventually to pick up on things like this - and this might
influence my subscription.
In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born
and resident in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah,
aged 53, and his two daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and
Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know about their past and futures, so
please don't waste your time in looking that up (unless you find
Ina when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a circus!)

At this period the newspapers sometimes reported the comings and
goings of socially prominent people ("Mr & Mrs George Davenport
have returned from holiday in Biarritz" or the like). A trawl
through the local press, or, if they were part of London Society,
even the Court page of The Times, might be worth a try.
-- Chris Pitt Lewis
--- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Chris
Thanks for that thought. Looks like I need to sign up to The Times
archive (or spend a day at the local library looking through it).
Grr, The Times (on its current offer) requires a phone call rather
than a simple internet subscription. Why can't they move into the
21st Century?
Chris

I had a quick look at the British National Archive for "George Davenport"
in 1911 and didn't see anything concerning travel.

Thank you.

[unknown]

+ User FidoNet address: 1:124/5016
Chris wrote:
C>
C>
C> At this period the newspapers sometimes reported the comings and goings
C> of socially prominent people ("Mr & Mrs George Davenport have returned
C> from holiday in Biarritz" or the like). A trawl through the local press,
C> or, if they were part of London Society, even the Court page of The
C> Times, might be worth a try.

There's nothing I can see other then Goerge Davenport bringing action
for libel repored 15 July 1911.

The 1911 census was taken on April 2nd so he'd have to have been back by
then.

I'll keep looking to see if I see anything.
--
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+ The FidoNet News Gate (Huntsville, AL - USA) +
+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Chris Dickinson]

On Wednesday, 29 August 2018 22:26:53 UTC+1, Nigel Reed wrote:
<snip>

Post by unknown
The 1911 census was taken on April 2nd so he'd have to have been back by
then.

Good point - and I expect he was.

However, he was a major person in town, and I would guess that any libel action could have taken place without his personal appearance.

Chris

[MB]

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis
At this period the newspapers sometimes reported the comings and goings
of socially prominent people ("Mr & Mrs George Davenport have returned
from holiday in Biarritz" or the like). A trawl through the local press,
or, if they were part of London Society, even the Court page of The
Times, might be worth a try.

And local newspapers in holiday areas often listed all the people
staying at each hotel, guest house or B&B.

[unknown]

+ User FidoNet address: 1:124/5016
Chris wrote:
C> From: Chris Dickinson <***@dickinson.uk.net>
C>
C> I can't find a family in 1911 that appears in previous censuses. This censu=
C> s was, I understand, taken 02-04-1911, so a Spring break seems entirely pos=
C> sible.
C>
C> They are wealthy, and the head of the family died in 1912 (so a possible 'h=
C> ealth' holiday). The eldest daughter, now married, was with her husband in =
C> what looks like a holiday 'cottage' in Brockenhurst, Hampshire.
C>
C> So, are there sources that might give an answer? I'm not subscribed to Find=
C> MyPast, etc., but know that I have to take the plunge eventually to pick up=
C> on things like this - and this might influence my subscription.
C>
C> In case any of you feel like searching, the family are (all born and reside=
C> nt in Leek): George Davenport, aged 58, his wife Sarah, aged 53, and his tw=
C> o daughters (Ina Frances, aged 19, and Margaret/Margot,aged 18). I know abo=
C> ut their past and futures, so please don't waste your time in looking that =
C> up (unless you find Ina when she reputedly ran away as a teenager to join a=
C> circus!)
C>
C> Those of you who have long memories may remember helping me out ten years a=
C> go on the 'bouncing Ina' in this thread:
C>
C> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/soc.genealogy.britain/ina$20fran=
C> ces$20davenport%7Csort:date/soc.genealogy.britain/qNbN2HB7THo/rh5zanG6ClMJ
C>
C> or here:
C>
C> https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/***@rootsweb.com/thread/2864=
C> 729/

According to findmypast there are 45 records in the 1911 census that
contain both a George and Sarah Davenport.

Since you gave me a clue that they came from Leek, I checked the 1901 census
and find George Davenport from Leek born 1853. There he is with Sarah along
with Ina Frances, Margaret and the 3 servants Florance, Annie and Harriet.

Trimming down the records to people born 1853 +/- 2 years I get 3 records.

There's a George Davenport born 1851 (it's possible depending the years of
the census against the actual date of birth to get a 2 year gap) but it
shows he was born in Liverpool. Married but no spouse with him. He's a
Boarder with 2 others.

The other 2 matches aren't even close.

Now, I'm looking at the address in the 1901 census and they lived at 168
Market St. In the 1911 census they only went up to number 25. Maybe it was
demolished.

This really is a bit of a puzzler, especially since he's back home in 1912.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The FidoNet News Gate (Huntsville, AL - USA) +
+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Chris Dickinson]

Post by unknown
According to findmypast there are 45 records in the 1911 census that
contain both a George and Sarah Davenport.
Since you gave me a clue that they came from Leek, I checked the 1901 census
and find George Davenport from Leek born 1853. There he is with Sarah along
with Ina Frances, Margaret and the 3 servants Florance, Annie and Harriet.
Trimming down the records to people born 1853 +/- 2 years I get 3 records.
There's a George Davenport born 1851 (it's possible depending the years of
the census against the actual date of birth to get a 2 year gap) but it
shows he was born in Liverpool. Married but no spouse with him. He's a
Boarder with 2 others.
The other 2 matches aren't even close.
Now, I'm looking at the address in the 1901 census and they lived at 168
Market St. In the 1911 census they only went up to number 25. Maybe it was
demolished.
This really is a bit of a puzzler, especially since he's back home in 1912.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ The FidoNet News Gate (Huntsville, AL - USA) +
+ The views of this user are strictly his or her own. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hello Nigel

Thank you for your thoughts and research. As I wrote, I have a reasonably full record of their lives before and after the 1911 Census. The only problem is where they were when the 1911 Census was taken - apparently abroad. So I'm looking for ways to pin that down.

Chris