Comparing Death records

[Jenny M Benson]

I have the Death Certificate of Susan Cooper who died of Chronic
Dysentery on 17 January 1838 in St Luke's Workhouse, Hoxton New Town.
She is described as a "Pauper"GED 39 and the death was registered on 19
January by the Master of the Workhouse.

I also have an image from the Burial Register of St Luke's Old Street
which shows the burial of Susanna Cooper of Playhouse Yard, aged 39, on
28 January 1838.

Is it reasonable to assume that these records relate to the same person?
I cannot find another Death Registration or Burial record to fit. I
believe that at least the Burial is of my relative Susanna Fransham,
wife of William Edward Cooper who was also buried at St Luke's in 1838.

[Peter Johnson]

On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:49:18 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson
I have the Death Certificate of Susan Cooper who died of Chronic
Dysentery on 17 January 1838 in St Luke's Workhouse, Hoxton New Town.
She is described as a "Pauper"GED 39 and the death was registered on 19
January by the Master of the Workhouse.
I also have an image from the Burial Register of St Luke's Old Street
which shows the burial of Susanna Cooper of Playhouse Yard, aged 39, on
28 January 1838.
Is it reasonable to assume that these records relate to the same person?
I cannot find another Death Registration or Burial record to fit. I
believe that at least the Burial is of my relative Susanna Fransham,
wife of William Edward Cooper who was also buried at St Luke's in 1838.

It would be very unusual in 1838 for there to be such a long gap
between death and burial, although January in 1838 (and until recent
times) would have been cold enough to freeze the corpse.

[Colin Bignell]

Post by Peter Johnson
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:49:18 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson
I have the Death Certificate of Susan Cooper who died of Chronic
Dysentery on 17 January 1838 in St Luke's Workhouse, Hoxton New Town.
She is described as a "Pauper"GED 39 and the death was registered on 19
January by the Master of the Workhouse.
I also have an image from the Burial Register of St Luke's Old Street
which shows the burial of Susanna Cooper of Playhouse Yard, aged 39, on
28 January 1838.
Is it reasonable to assume that these records relate to the same person?
I cannot find another Death Registration or Burial record to fit. I
believe that at least the Burial is of my relative Susanna Fransham,
wife of William Edward Cooper who was also buried at St Luke's in 1838.

It would be very unusual in 1838 for there to be such a long gap
between death and burial, although January in 1838 (and until recent
times) would have been cold enough to freeze the corpse.

That was a particularly severe winter, so the ground may also have been
frozen.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Peter Johnson
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:49:18 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson
I have the Death Certificate of Susan Cooper who died of Chronic
Dysentery on 17 January 1838 in St Luke's Workhouse, Hoxton New Town.
She is described as a "Pauper"GED 39 and the death was registered on 19
January by the Master of the Workhouse.
I also have an image from the Burial Register of St Luke's Old Street
which shows the burial of Susanna Cooper of Playhouse Yard, aged 39, on
28 January 1838.
Is it reasonable to assume that these records relate to the same person?
I cannot find another Death Registration or Burial record to fit. I
believe that at least the Burial is of my relative Susanna Fransham,
wife of William Edward Cooper who was also buried at St Luke's in 1838.

It would be very unusual in 1838 for there to be such a long gap
between death and burial, although January in 1838 (and until recent
times) would have been cold enough to freeze the corpse.

That was my thought, especially for a pauper. A quick burial in an
unmarked grave and probably not the only occupant of the grave,
especially at that time of year. Whether or not the burial was properly
registered would depend on how conscientious the cleric (or his clerk) was.

[Ian Goddard]

Post by Peter Johnson
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:49:18 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson
I have the Death Certificate of Susan Cooper who died of Chronic
Dysentery on 17 January 1838 in St Luke's Workhouse, Hoxton New Town.
She is described as a "Pauper"GED 39 and the death was registered on 19
January by the Master of the Workhouse.
I also have an image from the Burial Register of St Luke's Old Street
which shows the burial of Susanna Cooper of Playhouse Yard, aged 39, on
28 January 1838.
Is it reasonable to assume that these records relate to the same person?
I cannot find another Death Registration or Burial record to fit. I
believe that at least the Burial is of my relative Susanna Fransham,
wife of William Edward Cooper who was also buried at St Luke's in 1838.

It would be very unusual in 1838 for there to be such a long gap
between death and burial, although January in 1838 (and until recent
times) would have been cold enough to freeze the corpse.

It might be worth inspecting the original records to determine whether
there isn't a 2 to 1 ot 1 to 2 error in the date recording. Are they in
sequence with the adjacent records?

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Ian Goddard

Post by Peter Johnson
It would be very unusual in 1838 for there to be such a long gap
between death and burial, although January in 1838 (and until recent
times) would have been cold enough to freeze the corpse.

It might be worth inspecting the original records to determine whether
there isn't a 2 to 1 ot 1 to 2 error in the date recording. Are they in
sequence with the adjacent records?

Burial definitely on 28th Jan, one of several that day, - which, come to
think of it, might suggest that bodies had been "accumulating" because
freezing weather had been holding up burials,

The gap between death and burial was one of the reasons I thought maybe
it wasn't the same person. Also the fact that the DC says "Pauper" and
no mention of the husband, who I am fairly certain died later that year.

On the other hand, I thought they were perhaps the same person because
there doesn't seem to be a corresponding burial for the Workhouse death
nor a corresponding death registration for the St Luke's burial.

[Steven Gibbs]

Post by Peter Johnson
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:49:18 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson
I have the Death Certificate of Susan Cooper who died of Chronic
Dysentery on 17 January 1838 in St Luke's Workhouse, Hoxton New Town.
She is described as a "Pauper"GED 39 and the death was registered on 19
January by the Master of the Workhouse.
I also have an image from the Burial Register of St Luke's Old Street
which shows the burial of Susanna Cooper of Playhouse Yard, aged 39, on
28 January 1838.
Is it reasonable to assume that these records relate to the same person?
I cannot find another Death Registration or Burial record to fit. I
believe that at least the Burial is of my relative Susanna Fransham,
wife of William Edward Cooper who was also buried at St Luke's in 1838.

It would be very unusual in 1838 for there to be such a long gap
between death and burial, although January in 1838 (and until recent
times) would have been cold enough to freeze the corpse.

I've done some checking with the deaths register for Bedford Union
Workhouse. A gap of five days was quite usual, six days occured
occasionally and I found a couple of gaps of seven days, but nothing
longer. (The date of burial given in this register usually differed from
that in the parish register!) But it's a different type of area from
inner London, a small register and, from what I can see of St Luke's on
Ancestry, their records seem to be very minimal compared to Bedford's. I
don't think you can rule it out on the basis of a gap of nine days,
especially as there seem to be no other plausible alternatives.

Steven

[Gordon]

I have the Death Certificate of Susan Cooper who died of Chronic Dysentery
on 17 January 1838 in St Luke's Workhouse, Hoxton New Town. She is
described as a "Pauper"GED 39 and the death was registered on 19 January by
the Master of the Workhouse.
I also have an image from the Burial Register of St Luke's Old Street which
shows the burial of Susanna Cooper of Playhouse Yard, aged 39, on 28
January 1838.
Is it reasonable to assume that these records relate to the same person? I
cannot find another Death Registration or Burial record to fit. I believe
that at least the Burial is of my relative Susanna Fransham, wife of
William Edward Cooper who was also buried at St Luke's in 1838.

If you can check the workhouse records they might be able to link the two if
it is the same person. The workhouse's own death records would often record
where she was buried or who claimed the body for burial. I don't know when
it was put into law but unclaimed bodies from workhouses were often sent for
medical research when it was.

Dying in the workhouse didn't necessarily mean she was an inmate of the
system. Back then the local workhouse was also the local hospital for those
who could not afford private care so the workhouse infirmary records could
be a useful source.

Good hunting

Gordon

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Gordon
If you can check the workhouse records they might be able to link the
two if it is the same person. The workhouse's own death records would
often record where she was buried or who claimed the body for burial. I
don't know when it was put into law but unclaimed bodies from workhouses
were often sent for medical research when it was.
Dying in the workhouse didn't necessarily mean she was an inmate of the
system. Back then the local workhouse was also the local hospital for
those who could not afford private care so the workhouse infirmary
records could be a useful source.
Good hunting

Thank you. I think LMA have the records but doubt I could get there to
look at them.

[Gordon]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Gordon
If you can check the workhouse records they might be able to link the two
if it is the same person. The workhouse's own death records would often
record where she was buried or who claimed the body for burial. I don't
know when it was put into law but unclaimed bodies from workhouses were
often sent for medical research when it was.
Dying in the workhouse didn't necessarily mean she was an inmate of the
system. Back then the local workhouse was also the local hospital for
those who could not afford private care so the workhouse infirmary
records could be a useful source.
Good hunting

Thank you. I think LMA have the records but doubt I could get there to
look at them.

It has been a while since I went to the LMA but they may do a researcher
service which their website would say. Also a lot of their records are
available through Ancestry (UK) if you have a subscription to Ancestry.

Good hunting

Gordon