1841 census - Kensington

[bigbrian]

Can someone tell me how to find out who was living between say, 12 and
16 Young Street, Kensington in the 1841 Census? I have the people
living there in later census returns, but I can't find those people
anywhere, searching by name, in the 1841. I've just come across a
birth in 1842 in the same family at the same address, so I'd like to
search for them at that address in 1841 and see if they were there
then, and possibly misindexed.

I've tried looking through the handwritten summaries of the
enumeration districts, but Young Street isn't a road specificaly
mentioned

Grateful for any help
Brian

[willers]

Brian

Can't help with 1841 but , by way of coincidence, my grandmother, Emily
Ellen Rushmer, was born in 1880 and the address on her birth cert. is 14
Young St. Kensington. In the 1881 census the occupants of 14 Young St. were
Samuel and Emily Rushmer, my GGGrandparents, both age 68, both born Suffolk.
Any linkage with what you have?

Bill

Post by bigbrian
Can someone tell me how to find out who was living between say, 12 and
16 Young Street, Kensington in the 1841 Census? I have the people
living there in later census returns, but I can't find those people
anywhere, searching by name, in the 1841. I've just come across a
birth in 1842 in the same family at the same address, so I'd like to
search for them at that address in 1841 and see if they were there
then, and possibly misindexed.
I've tried looking through the handwritten summaries of the
enumeration districts, but Young Street isn't a road specificaly
mentioned
Grateful for any help
Brian

[bigbrian]

Post by willers
Brian
Can't help with 1841 but , by way of coincidence, my grandmother, Emily
Ellen Rushmer, was born in 1880 and the address on her birth cert. is 14
Young St. Kensington. In the 1881 census the occupants of 14 Young St. were
Samuel and Emily Rushmer, my GGGrandparents, both age 68, both born Suffolk.
Any linkage with what you have?
Bill

Hi Bill,

How bizarre! It doesn't look like there's any connection, though. The
family I'm looking at were all gone from there by the mid 1860s
(Edward Kendall, an organ builider, operating from Young Street, and
his children). He died in 1865 and his family dispersed elsewhere. I
have them in the 1851 and 1861, and a birth in the family in Young
Street in 1842, but I'd like to know if they were there in 1841 too,
since I can't find them by a name search at all.

Brian

[Hugh Watkins]

Post by willers
Brian
Can't help with 1841 but , by way of coincidence, my grandmother, Emily
Ellen Rushmer, was born in 1880 and the address on her birth cert. is 14
Young St. Kensington. In the 1881 census the occupants of 14 Young St. were
Samuel and Emily Rushmer, my GGGrandparents, both age 68, both born Suffolk.
Any linkage with what you have?
Bill

Post by bigbrian
Can someone tell me how to find out who was living between say, 12 and
16 Young Street, Kensington in the 1841 Census? I have the people
living there in later census returns, but I can't find those people
anywhere, searching by name, in the 1841. I've just come across a
birth in 1842 in the same family at the same address, so I'd like to
search for them at that address in 1841 and see if they were there
then, and possibly misindexed.
I've tried looking through the handwritten summaries of the
enumeration districts, but Young Street isn't a road specificaly
mentioned

Brian you will get better help if you name for whom you are looking

9764 people in the Kensington Civil parish in 1841
there are always typos so please post full details of the family in 1851

Hugh W

=================== searches so far =================
You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1881 England
Census > London > Kensington > Kensington Town > District 4a

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7572&iid=LNDRG11_20_24-0790&fn=Samuel&ln=Rushmer&st=d&ssrc=&pid=13119903

Harriet Gorham abt 1823 Middlesex, England Head Kensington
London is one of the oldest and may be stable at this address

she is there in 1971 too 6 Young Street Fund Holder Annuitant
in 1861 the widow of a tradesman

but in 1851 the wife of watchmaker Francis Gorham watchmake and
(Registrar of Births and Deaths) at 2(nd) Terrace near Balls Court off
the High Street Kensington St Mary Abbott
so I need to browse the images to find a new person to take me back from
1861 to 1851
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 19; Folio: 98; Page: 1; GSU roll:
542557.

d John H Howlett abt 1782 Maidstone, Kent, England Head
Kensington Middlesex
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1468; Folio: 167; Page: 39; GSU
roll: 87790-87791.
9 Young Street Chaplain of the Chapel Royal
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=8860&path=Middlesex.Kensington.Kensington+Town.3b.39

================ nearly there ==================
You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1851 England
Census > Middlesex > Kensington > Kensington Town > District 3b


in 1841

under Brompton
District Cowper Licensed Madhouse Old Brompton

District Kensington Licensed Madhouse Kensington Town

District Warwick Licensed Madhouse Little Chelsea

You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1841 England
Census > Middlesex > Kensington > Brompton > District 3

I have a bad feeling about this

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=List&dbid=8978&enc=1&offerid=0%3a7858%3a0

Known problems with the 1841 Census:

The following table shows piece numbers where part or all of the piece
is missing, as well as piece numbers that were not used.

680 Middlesex Parish: Paddington
690 Middlesex
Parish: Kensington (part)

Townships:
Brompton
Kensall Green (part)


You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1841 England
Census > Middlesex > Kensington > Kensington Town > District Hammersmith
Workhouse

is all that survives of kensigton Towen

too bad

Hugh W

[bigbrian]

Post by Hugh Watkins
The following table shows piece numbers where part or all of the piece
is missing, as well as piece numbers that were not used.
680 Middlesex Parish: Paddington
690 Middlesex
Parish: Kensington (part)
Brompton
Kensall Green (part)
You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1841 England
Census > Middlesex > Kensington > Kensington Town > District Hammersmith
Workhouse
is all that survives of kensigton Towen

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for that. it looks like the people I'm looking for are in the
part that's lost, so if anyone has any clues for other sources -
directories etc- to look at, I'd be grateful. My problem (family) is
this (you'll be sorry you asked!):

1861 - RG9; Piece: 19; Folio: 54; Page: 61

Edward Kendall, 69, organ builder, at 29 Kensington Place, Kensington

He has a wife called Sophia, age 50, although I can find no record of
a marriage (see 1851 below), and the following children:

Elizabeth, 19 (unmarried, see below)
John, 16
Alfred, 1

Alfred is specifically described as an "organ builder's son", although
the age of the putative parents suggests otherwise (see below)

1851 - HO107; Piece: 1468; Folio: 169; Page: 42

Edward Kendall, 56, organ builder, at 15 Young Street, Kensington

No wife, but he has a servant called Sophia Edgar, a widow aged 51,
and the following children

Amelia 15
Edward, 13
Elizabeth, 7
John, 5

Age discrepancies notwithstanding, I believe the two Sophias are the
same.

Amelia was married by the time of the 1861, hence her absence from the
later census record, although Edward Jnr wasn't. He married in 1862,
giving the 1861 address of 29 Kensington Place, Kensington on his
marriage cert, although he's not shown living there in the 1861
census. I can't find him anywhere in 1861 and would like to. When he
died aged 28 in 1868, his profession was given as a painter..

I can't find a birth record for any of the Kendall children. Amelia
was born pre 1837. Edward died aged, apparently, 28 in 1868, although
I can find no birth record in the 1838-1840 timeframe.

I do however have a birth certificate for an Elizabeth *Edgar*, b
1842. Her mother is given as Sophia Edgar, and no father is named. The
address on the birth cert is 14 Young Street, Kensington.

I have a birth cert for the Alfred b in 1860, giving his mother as
Elizabeth Kendall, formerly Edgar, and a father called Alfred Kendall,
a shoemaker. I have no idea who he may be, and I can find no likely
marriage record for an Elizabeth Edgar with anyone called Kendall. I
suspect he's fictitious.

My conclusions at the moment are that:

- Elizabeth is the illegitimate daughter of Edward Kendall and Sophia
Edgar, who may or may not have already been widowed at the time of the
birth.

- Alfred is the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth Edgar, with a
father unknown (an alternative is that Edward Kendall at 69 fathered a
child with his own 18 year old daughter!)

My interest in the 1841 census is to determine whether any of them
were living in the 14-15 Young Street area, the year before
Elizabeth's birth at 14 Young Street, and if so who. The British Organ
Archive of organ builders suggests thats Edward Kendall was at that
address at the time, but I'd like to know who else was there.

Its a bit of a mess, so any pointers will be gratefully received!

Brian

[Hugh Watkins]

Post by bigbrian

Post by Hugh Watkins
The following table shows piece numbers where part or all of the piece
is missing, as well as piece numbers that were not used.
680 Middlesex Parish: Paddington
690 Middlesex
Parish: Kensington (part)
Brompton
Kensall Green (part)
You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1841 England
Census > Middlesex > Kensington > Kensington Town > District Hammersmith
Workhouse
is all that survives of kensigton Towen

Hi Hugh,
Thanks for that. it looks like the people I'm looking for are in the
part that's lost, so if anyone has any clues for other sources -
directories etc- to look at, I'd be grateful. My problem (family) is
1861 - RG9; Piece: 19; Folio: 54; Page: 61
Edward Kendall, 69, organ builder, at 29 Kensington Place, Kensington
He has a wife called Sophia, age 50, although I can find no record of
Elizabeth, 19 (unmarried, see below)
John, 16
Alfred, 1
Alfred is specifically described as an "organ builder's son", although
the age of the putative parents suggests otherwise (see below)
1851 - HO107; Piece: 1468; Folio: 169; Page: 42
Edward Kendall, 56, organ builder, at 15 Young Street, Kensington
No wife, but he has a servant called Sophia Edgar, a widow aged 51,
and the following children
Amelia 15
Edward, 13
Elizabeth, 7
John, 5
Age discrepancies notwithstanding, I believe the two Sophias are the
same.
Amelia was married by the time of the 1861, hence her absence from the
later census record, although Edward Jnr wasn't. He married in 1862,
giving the 1861 address of 29 Kensington Place, Kensington on his
marriage cert, although he's not shown living there in the 1861
census. I can't find him anywhere in 1861 and would like to. When he
died aged 28 in 1868, his profession was given as a painter..
I can't find a birth record for any of the Kendall children. Amelia
was born pre 1837. Edward died aged, apparently, 28 in 1868, although
I can find no birth record in the 1838-1840 timeframe.
I do however have a birth certificate for an Elizabeth *Edgar*, b
1842. Her mother is given as Sophia Edgar, and no father is named. The
address on the birth cert is 14 Young Street, Kensington.
I have a birth cert for the Alfred b in 1860, giving his mother as
Elizabeth Kendall, formerly Edgar, and a father called Alfred Kendall,
a shoemaker. I have no idea who he may be, and I can find no likely
marriage record for an Elizabeth Edgar with anyone called Kendall. I
suspect he's fictitious.
- Elizabeth is the illegitimate daughter of Edward Kendall and Sophia
Edgar, who may or may not have already been widowed at the time of the
birth.
- Alfred is the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth Edgar, with a
father unknown (an alternative is that Edward Kendall at 69 fathered a
child with his own 18 year old daughter!)
My interest in the 1841 census is to determine whether any of them
were living in the 14-15 Young Street area, the year before
Elizabeth's birth at 14 Young Street, and if so who. The British Organ
Archive of organ builders suggests thats Edward Kendall was at that
address at the time, but I'd like to know who else was there.
Its a bit of a mess, so any pointers will be gratefully received!

yes Brian
usually I track these things through a pub or a business which retains
the same address in the different cenuses

I kicked myself for not doing the last stage first
but that is how I teach myself genealogy - trial and error

I would head for the Kensington Borough Local Archive
http://www.rbkc.gov.uk/libraries/localstudiesandarchives/default.asp

http://www.a2a.org.uk/



you should be able to track heads of households through
Rate Books and other taxation records and organ builders in directories

FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL

illigitimate children may well feature in parochial records if a
question of child support emrges

I am taking a second look a the history of kensington

Post by bigbrian

Post by Hugh Watkins
The Metropolitan Borough of Kensington was a metropolitan borough in

the County of London from 1900 to 1965. <<

The Kensington borough covered 2,291 acres once part of Kensal New Town
(a detached part of Chelsea before 1901) had been added. The population
of Kensington recorded in the Census, which excludes Kensal New Town
before 1901, was: [1]

* 1801: 8,556
* 1811: 10,886
* 1821: 14,428
* 1831: 20,902
* 1841: 26,834

<< wiki
http://www.londonancestor.com/maps/maps.htm
in 1832 with Brompton and Old Brompton
http://www.londonancestor.com/maps/london-north.htm

Manor of Kensington
Kensington-palace, so called from its contiguity to this place, stands
within the parish of St. Margaret, Westminster - a city
The parish church, dedicated to St. Mary
from http://www.british-history.ac.uk/place.asp

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=51071#s14

The national school was originally founded as a parochial free school,
in 1645, by Roger Pimble, who endowed it with tenements in the parish,
the rents of which, augmented by subsequent benefactions, produce an
income of more than £250 per annum; the premises, situated in
High-street, are handsomely built of brick. Lord and Lady Campden in
1635 bequeathed £200, with which, including a benefaction of £45,
supposed to have been given by Oliver Cromwell, and called Cromwell's
gift, an estate was purchased producing nearly £200 per annum, one
moiety of which was to be given to the poor, and the other appropriated
to the apprenticing of children.

another possibility to search for surviving reords
both of pupils and rents

http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/index.jsp
I always have a battle to find this site

in this case not so useful
bets nagivated by a google site search
site:www.visionofbritain.org.uk kensington

<http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&q=site%3Awww.visionofbritain.org.uk+kensington&btnG=Google+Search>

http://www.mappalondon.com/ 1862 - 1871
Loading Image...
no point in searching Brompton I see

Kensington Abbotts Manor

435 catalogues were found to match kensington


London Metropolitan Archives: City of London
40 Northampton Road
London
EC1R 0HB
England

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/leisure_heritage/libraries_archives_museums_galleries/lma/lma.htm

things like rates for poor law and sewage





Hugh W

[c***@postmaster.co.uk]

Post by bigbrian
Thanks for that. it looks like the people I'm looking for are in the
part that's lost, so if anyone has any clues for other sources -
directories etc- to look at, I'd be grateful.

I'm not sure you'll be particularly grateful for non-information, but
FWIW, the Post Office London Directory 1841, Part 1, p288, image 316,
at
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/ has for Young St (businesses
only):-

4 James Butler, solicitor
18 James Merriman & Son, surgeons
20 George Smith, carver & guilder
23 George Trott, currier etc.

There is an architect, Edward Henry Kendal, at 33 Brunswick Sq (p455,
image 483), but presumably he's not related.

No likely Organ Builders (p772 image 800).

Likewise nothing on the 1825/6 Pigot's London directory from
http://www.rod-neep.co.uk/

I fear you may have to trawl through all the other directories for the
1840s at http://www.historicaldirectories.org/ in case he was building
up his business outside London.

Post by bigbrian
My interest in the 1841 census is to determine whether any of them
were living in the 14-15 Young Street area, the year before
Elizabeth's birth at 14 Young Street, and if so who. The British Organ
Archive of organ builders suggests thats Edward Kendall was at that
address at the time, but I'd like to know who else was there.

Is this the Freeman Edmonds Directory of British Organ Builders
mentioned at the bottom of http://www.ohta.org.au/confs/WA/StPats.html
I found by Googling "Edward Kendal organ builder"? Put the Freeman
title into http://books.google co.uk/ and you will get the name of
someone who may be able to help you (and/or may appreciate anything
you find out). I guess the fastest way to contact him is through the
publishers of the Conservation and Restoration... book Google finds,
but if that fails I have contacts who may know of him.
--
Chris
Researching Penge, Anerley, London SE20, and neighbouring parts of
Beckenham, Kent.

[bigbrian]

Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
I'm not sure you'll be particularly grateful for non-information, but
FWIW, the Post Office London Directory 1841, Part 1, p288, image 316,
at http://www.historicaldirectories.org/has for Young St (businesses
only):-
4 James Butler, solicitor
18 James Merriman & Son, surgeons
20 George Smith, carver & guilder
23 George Trott, currier etc.
There is an architect, Edward Henry Kendal, at 33 Brunswick Sq (p455,
image 483), but presumably he's not related.
No likely Organ Builders (p772 image 800).

Thanks for looking. I tried that directory also, but with the same
results as you.

Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
Likewise nothing on the 1825/6 Pigot's London directory fromhttp://www.rod-neep.co.uk/

See below

Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
I fear you may have to trawl through all the other directories for the
1840s athttp://www.historicaldirectories.org/in case he was building
up his business outside London.

Post by bigbrian
My interest in the 1841 census is to determine whether any of them
were living in the 14-15 Young Street area, the year before
Elizabeth's birth at 14 Young Street, and if so who. The British Organ
Archive of organ builders suggests thats Edward Kendall was at that
address at the time, but I'd like to know who else was there.

Is this the Freeman Edmonds Directory of British Organ Builders
mentioned at the bottom of http://www.ohta.org.au/confs/WA/StPats.html
I found by Googling "Edward Kendal organ builder"?

No, but thanks for that. Its the National Pipe Organ Register, and I
got the result but searching for Kendall in their database of organ
builders here

http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/

Having said that I now see they can only place him at Young Street
from 1845, although before that at Kensington High Street around the
corner since 1826. And one of the sources they quote is the Pigot's
directory you refer to above, although I haven't looked in it myself.

Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
Put the Freeman
title into http://books.google.co.uk/ and you will get the name of
someone who may be able to help you (and/or may appreciate anything
you find out). I guess the fastest way to contact him is through the
publishers of the Conservation and Restoration... book Google finds,
but if that fails I have contacts who may know of him.

I've already spoken to the archivist of the Organ Archive, who was
able to help me details about some of the organs that Kendal built,
but unfortunately didn't have any more information about his residence
or other family matters than apears on the page referenced above.

One thing I did notice though in the 1851 cenus is that William
Makepeace Thackeray was living along the road at 13 Young Street, and
indeed wrote Vanity Fair there, so its not been a total dead loss!

Brian

[Hugh Watkins]

Post by bigbrian

Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
I'm not sure you'll be particularly grateful for non-information, but
FWIW, the Post Office London Directory 1841, Part 1, p288, image 316,
at http://www.historicaldirectories.org/has for Young St (businesses
only):-
4 James Butler, solicitor
18 James Merriman & Son, surgeons
20 George Smith, carver & guilder
23 George Trott, currier etc.
There is an architect, Edward Henry Kendal, at 33 Brunswick Sq (p455,
image 483), but presumably he's not related.
No likely Organ Builders (p772 image 800).

Thanks for looking. I tried that directory also, but with the same
results as you.

Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
Likewise nothing on the 1825/6 Pigot's London directory fromhttp://www.rod-neep.co.uk/

See below

Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
I fear you may have to trawl through all the other directories for the
1840s athttp://www.historicaldirectories.org/in case he was building
up his business outside London.

Post by bigbrian
My interest in the 1841 census is to determine whether any of them
were living in the 14-15 Young Street area, the year before
Elizabeth's birth at 14 Young Street, and if so who. The British Organ
Archive of organ builders suggests thats Edward Kendall was at that
address at the time, but I'd like to know who else was there.

Is this the Freeman Edmonds Directory of British Organ Builders
mentioned at the bottom of http://www.ohta.org.au/confs/WA/StPats.html
I found by Googling "Edward Kendal organ builder"?

No, but thanks for that. Its the National Pipe Organ Register, and I
got the result but searching for Kendall in their database of organ
builders here
http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/
Having said that I now see they can only place him at Young Street
from 1845, although before that at Kensington High Street around the
corner since 1826. And one of the sources they quote is the Pigot's
directory you refer to above, although I haven't looked in it myself.

Post by c***@postmaster.co.uk
Put the Freeman
title into http://books.google.co.uk/ and you will get the name of
someone who may be able to help you (and/or may appreciate anything
you find out). I guess the fastest way to contact him is through the
publishers of the Conservation and Restoration... book Google finds,
but if that fails I have contacts who may know of him.

I've already spoken to the archivist of the Organ Archive, who was
able to help me details about some of the organs that Kendal built,
but unfortunately didn't have any more information about his residence
or other family matters than apears on the page referenced above.
One thing I did notice though in the 1851 cenus is that William
Makepeace Thackeray was living along the road at 13 Young Street, and
indeed wrote Vanity Fair there, so its not been a total dead loss!

do invoices exist in parish records for work done on organs?
if you are lucky they will have engraved headers

Hugh W