1921: not at these prices!

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

From
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1921-census?utm_source=fmp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1921&utm_content=UK+1921+Excite&utm_term=404113385&M_BT=67
344807399266
:
"How much will the census cost?
£2.50 for every record transcript and £3.50 for every original record
image.
...
[Even] For all 12-month Pro subscribers, there will be a 10% discount on
any 1921 Census purchases.
...
Is there any way I can view the 1921 Census for free?

Anyone will be able to view the images of the 1921 Census of England and
Wales for free online at The National Archives upon release on 6 January
2022 (00:01 GMT). The original paper census returns will not be
available in the reading rooms. The paper records will be kept secure by
The National Archives at their offsite storage facility and readers at
The National Archives at Kew will be directed to the digital version."

IMO the word "online" is misleading, though probably not intentionally
so: from the rest of the words I've quoted, I presume it means "on a
computer screen if you physically visit TNA" (which is not what "online"
normally means, which is "from an internet connection").

I suppose we should welcome the release, and I'm not in any way
minimising the cost of the exercise - but to me these _are_ steep
prices, and I'm unlikely to find the 1921 breaks down any "brick walls"
for my own tree. It might for some, though.

[john]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
From
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/1921-census?utm_source=fmp&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1921&utm_content=UK+1921+Excite&utm_term=404113385&M_BT=67
344807399266
"How much will the census cost?
£2.50 for every record transcript and £3.50 for every original record
image.
...
[Even] For all 12-month Pro subscribers, there will be a 10% discount on
any 1921 Census purchases.
...
Is there any way I can view the 1921 Census for free?
Anyone will be able to view the images of the 1921 Census of England and
Wales for free online at The National Archives upon release on 6 January
2022 (00:01 GMT). The original paper census returns will not be
available in the reading rooms. The paper records will be kept secure by
The National Archives at their offsite storage facility and readers at
The National Archives at Kew will be directed to the digital version."
IMO the word "online" is misleading, though probably not intentionally
so: from the rest of the words I've quoted, I presume it means "on a
computer screen if you physically visit TNA" (which is not what "online"
normally means, which is "from an internet connection").
I suppose we should welcome the release, and I'm not in any way
minimising the cost of the exercise - but to me these _are_ steep
prices, and I'm unlikely to find the 1921 breaks down any "brick walls"
for my own tree. It might for some, though.

Yes, I thought the same when I saw the costs. I probably only check one
or two households.

However, looking back it seems the charges are the same as when the 1911
census was originally released.

Hopefully Ancestry will have be able to access all the images from early
Jan 2022 to start transcribing and have their version up by 2023 to
provide competition? Will the findmypast charges then

[Nigel Reed]

On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 11:55:10 +0100

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Is there any way I can view the 1921 Census for free?
Anyone will be able to view the images of the 1921 Census of England
and Wales for free online at The National Archives upon release on 6
January 2022 (00:01 GMT). The original paper census returns will not
be available in the reading rooms. The paper records will be kept
secure by The National Archives at their offsite storage facility and
readers at The National Archives at Kew will be directed to the
digital version."

I love this bit:
"The paper records will be kept secure by The National Archives at their
offsite storage facility and readers at The National Archives at Kew
will be directed to the digital version. This is to ensure the
preservation of the paper records for years to come."

Ok...so the records will be kept safe, but nobody can actually see
them, so which future generations are going to be able to see them?
Aren't we the future generation?

Love these sites, where they want all of our information for free but
to get anything back costs a substantial amount.

[Peter Johnson]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:33:47 -0600, Nigel Reed

Post by Nigel Reed
"The paper records will be kept secure by The National Archives at their
offsite storage facility and readers at The National Archives at Kew
will be directed to the digital version. This is to ensure the
preservation of the paper records for years to come."
Ok...so the records will be kept safe, but nobody can actually see
them, so which future generations are going to be able to see them?
Aren't we the future generation?

The offsite storage facility is a salt mine in Cheshire. I had had
documents, not census, retrieved from it. I would expect that if a
good case were made census documents would be retrieved. For example
the earlier digitised censuses were created from poor quality
microfilm, which is OK in most cases but a sight of the original might
sometimes reveal detail not captured by the microfilm.

[Charles Ellson]

On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:02:59 +0000, Peter Johnson

Post by Peter Johnson
On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:33:47 -0600, Nigel Reed

Post by Nigel Reed
"The paper records will be kept secure by The National Archives at their
offsite storage facility and readers at The National Archives at Kew
will be directed to the digital version. This is to ensure the
preservation of the paper records for years to come."
Ok...so the records will be kept safe, but nobody can actually see
them, so which future generations are going to be able to see them?
Aren't we the future generation?

The offsite storage facility is a salt mine in Cheshire. I had had
documents, not census, retrieved from it. I would expect that if a
good case were made census documents would be retrieved. For example
the earlier digitised censuses were created from poor quality
microfilm, which is OK in most cases but a sight of the original might
sometimes reveal detail not captured by the microfilm.

Many of those have been dealt with by being re-filmed (or scanned?) in
colour, IME usually the 1841 census.

[Peter Johnson]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 00:25:52 +0000, Charles Ellson

Post by Charles Ellson
On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:02:59 +0000, Peter Johnson

Post by Peter Johnson
The offsite storage facility is a salt mine in Cheshire. I had had
documents, not census, retrieved from it. I would expect that if a
good case were made census documents would be retrieved. For example
the earlier digitised censuses were created from poor quality
microfilm, which is OK in most cases but a sight of the original might
sometimes reveal detail not captured by the microfilm.

Many of those have been dealt with by being re-filmed (or scanned?) in
colour, IME usually the 1841 census.

Only seen the 1911 census in colour, on Ancestry. Having the others
rescanned would be a big improvement.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 at 15:30:32, Peter Johnson

Post by Peter Johnson
On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 00:25:52 +0000, Charles Ellson

[]

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Charles Ellson
Many of those have been dealt with by being re-filmed (or scanned?) in
colour, IME usually the 1841 census.

Only seen the 1911 census in colour, on Ancestry. Having the others
rescanned would be a big improvement.

(I think FMP have it thus too - in fact I think they had it first: I
think it was they who actually scanned it.) I think the 1911 was done in
colour from the start, whereas the others - I think - mostly only appear
in colour where for whatever reason someone has decided they need
re-scanning - presumably the microfilm isn't legible, either judged so
at original scanning or someone's asked for it to be re-scanned. I think
it's nearly always been the 1841, though I can remember seeing (so I
have somewhere) one of the later ones that had rotted, so is very red
(the colour of the fungus or whatever), so must have been done in
colour.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 at 00:25:52, Charles Ellson

Post by Charles Ellson
On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 14:02:59 +0000, Peter Johnson

Post by Peter Johnson
On Thu, 11 Nov 2021 04:33:47 -0600, Nigel Reed

Post by Nigel Reed
"The paper records will be kept secure by The National Archives at their
offsite storage facility and readers at The National Archives at Kew
will be directed to the digital version. This is to ensure the
preservation of the paper records for years to come."
Ok...so the records will be kept safe, but nobody can actually see
them, so which future generations are going to be able to see them?
Aren't we the future generation?

OK, it's flowery language, but makes sense to me: I interpret it as
meaning they think the current scanning process is, to within reasonable
limits, the best that can be achieved with current technology, but they
are keeping the originals against future improvements. And also in case
they find errors (I can only think of omissions, or undetected scanning
errors) in the current scans.

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by Peter Johnson
The offsite storage facility is a salt mine in Cheshire. I had had
documents, not census, retrieved from it. I would expect that if a
good case were made census documents would be retrieved. For example

Indeed.

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by Peter Johnson
the earlier digitised censuses were created from poor quality
microfilm, which is OK in most cases but a sight of the original might
sometimes reveal detail not captured by the microfilm.

Many of those have been dealt with by being re-filmed (or scanned?) in
colour, IME usually the 1841 census.

Yes, I remember the first time I came across a colour version of an 1841
one, I found it gorgeous.

(Given it was mostly done in pencil - "with the pencil provided", as it
says in the instructions - it's amazing it's still legible at all.)