Discussion:
John White Sowerby - help me look at the evidence
(too old to reply)
Ruth Wilson
2018-09-28 20:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Can I start off by saying that I am pretty experienced with family
history, so you don't need to point me to basic sources, although if
there is something glaringly obvious I've missed, shout out!

I really want to share with you my thoughts on a possible forebear and
have some discussion as to the evidence, such as it is.

William White was baptised 1820, Thursby, son of Elizabeth White.

His sister, Isabella, was baptised 1822 in Dalston, where she lived most
of her life, although she gave her birthplace as Westward. Her mother
was given on the baptism as Elizabeth White. Her father was later (marr
cert) named as John Sowerby, stonemason. My 2x gt grandmother.

John White or Sowerby was baptised in Thursby, 1826, son of Elizabeth
White and John Sowerby (unmarried)

I am confident that these three are siblings and have quite a bit of
evidence which adds up to show this.

I do not know what became of John White Sowerby, although a distant
relative has linked him with a John Sowerby living in Millom in the mid
C19. I am looking to either prove or disprove this link. (her tree is a
bit of a curate's egg ...)

John Sowerby in Millom
John died in 1874, age 46. The probate indexes give seemingly unrelated
businessmen as his executors. I have not got a copy of the will.

1871 living in Millom, innkeeper, birthplace given as ‘Westmorland’, age
43. Birthplace is wrong, age is close. He has a nephew, Joseph White,
age 24, living with him. ‘My’ John had a nephew of this name and age,
but this one has his birthplace given as Millom. GRO does not have a
Joseph White born Millom within 2-3 years. He is also in Millom, with
Millom birthplace, in 1881. He is not in 1851 or 1861, but ‘my’ Joseph
White is in Great Salkeld with his parents. In other words, they could
be the same person, as I can’t prove they are two people.

1866 John married Hannah Shacklay. I have the certificate. His age is
given as 38, bachelor. Occupation ‘coachman (gentleman’s)’, and his
father as John Sowerby, headstone cutter, deceased. This seems to link
in with my line’s occupation as stonemason.

1861 he is living at Seaton Hall as a coachman, age 32, birthplace,
Holme Cultram, Cumberland. Looking at an online index for this parish,
there do not appear to have been any Sowerbys there, and I cannot find
him with this information on earlier censuses.

1851 I am not 100 percent confident that I have the same person, but it
seems probable. There is a John Sowerby, age 23, living in a barrister’s
household, working as a groom. This seems a likely career step to
coachman. Then two bits of information that could link him to my line
(although not definitively). His birthplace here is given as Westward
(neighbouring both Dalston and Thursby, given as his mother and
siblings’ birthplace); and he is living in Great Salkeld where his
possible brother, William White, was also living with mother, Elizabeth.

There is a lot of tantalising evidence pointing towards this John being
mine, and I am certainly veering towards accepting it, but there is a
lot that does not quite add up (ages, birthplaces) without being enough
to really disprove it.

It has actually helped to write all this down, but if anyone wants to
join in the conversation, please do!

Ruth
Doug Laidlaw
2018-10-17 14:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruth Wilson
Can I start off by saying that I am pretty experienced with family
history, so you don't need to point me to basic sources, although if
there is something glaringly obvious I've missed, shout out!
I really want to share with you my thoughts on a possible forebear and
have some discussion as to the evidence, such as it is.
William White was baptised 1820, Thursby, son of Elizabeth White.
His sister, Isabella, was baptised 1822 in Dalston, where she lived most
of her life, although she gave her birthplace as Westward. Her mother
was given on the baptism as Elizabeth White. Her father was later (marr
cert) named as John Sowerby, stonemason. My 2x gt grandmother.
John White or Sowerby was baptised in Thursby, 1826, son of Elizabeth
White and John Sowerby (unmarried)
I am confident that these three are siblings and have quite a bit of
evidence which adds up to show this.
I do not know what became of John White Sowerby, although a distant
relative has linked him with a John Sowerby living in Millom in the mid
C19. I am looking to either prove or disprove this link. (her tree is a
bit of a curate's egg ...)
John Sowerby in Millom
John died in 1874, age 46. The probate indexes give seemingly unrelated
businessmen as his executors. I have not got a copy of the will.
1871 living in Millom, innkeeper, birthplace given as ‘Westmorland’, age
43. Birthplace is wrong, age is close. He has a nephew, Joseph White,
age 24, living with him. ‘My’ John had a nephew of this name and age,
but this one has his birthplace given as Millom. GRO does not have a
Joseph White born Millom within 2-3 years. He is also in Millom, with
Millom birthplace, in 1881. He is not in 1851 or 1861, but ‘my’ Joseph
White is in Great Salkeld with his parents. In other words, they could
be the same person, as I can’t prove they are two people.
1866 John married Hannah Shacklay. I have the certificate. His age is
given as 38, bachelor. Occupation ‘coachman (gentleman’s)’, and his
father as John Sowerby, headstone cutter, deceased. This seems to link
in with my line’s occupation as stonemason.
1861 he is living at Seaton Hall as a coachman, age 32, birthplace,
Holme Cultram, Cumberland. Looking at an online index for this parish,
there do not appear to have been any Sowerbys there, and I cannot find
him with this information on earlier censuses.
1851 I am not 100 percent confident that I have the same person, but it
seems probable. There is a John Sowerby, age 23, living in a barrister’s
household, working as a groom. This seems a likely career step to
coachman. Then two bits of information that could link him to my line
(although not definitively). His birthplace here is given as Westward
(neighbouring both Dalston and Thursby, given as his mother and
siblings’ birthplace); and he is living in Great Salkeld where his
possible brother, William White, was also living with mother, Elizabeth.
There is a lot of tantalising evidence pointing towards this John being
mine, and I am certainly veering towards accepting it, but there is a
lot that does not quite add up (ages, birthplaces) without being enough
to really disprove it.
It has actually helped to write all this down, but if anyone wants to
join in the conversation, please do!
Ruth
A conversation is one thing. What is the question?
Ruth Wilson
2018-10-17 17:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ruth Wilson
Can I start off by saying that I am pretty experienced with family
history, so you don't need to point me to basic sources, although if
there is something glaringly obvious I've missed, shout out!
I really want to share with you my thoughts on a possible forebear and
have some discussion as to the evidence, such as it is.
William White was baptised 1820, Thursby, son of Elizabeth White.
His sister, Isabella, was baptised 1822 in Dalston, where she lived
most of her life, although she gave her birthplace as Westward. Her
mother was given on the baptism as Elizabeth White. Her father was
later (marr cert) named as John Sowerby, stonemason. My 2x gt
grandmother.
John White or Sowerby was baptised in Thursby, 1826, son of Elizabeth
White and John Sowerby (unmarried)
I am confident that these three are siblings and have quite a bit of
evidence which adds up to show this.
I do not know what became of John White Sowerby, although a distant
relative has linked him with a John Sowerby living in Millom in the
mid C19. I am looking to either prove or disprove this link. (her tree
is a bit of a curate's egg ...)
John Sowerby in Millom
John died in 1874, age 46. The probate indexes give seemingly
unrelated businessmen as his executors. I have not got a copy of the
will.
1871 living in Millom, innkeeper, birthplace given as ‘Westmorland’,
age 43. Birthplace is wrong, age is close. He has a nephew, Joseph
White, age 24, living with him. ‘My’ John had a nephew of this name
and age, but this one has his birthplace given as Millom. GRO does not
have a Joseph White born Millom within 2-3 years. He is also in
Millom, with Millom birthplace, in 1881. He is not in 1851 or 1861,
but ‘my’ Joseph White is in Great Salkeld with his parents. In other
words, they could be the same person, as I can’t prove they are two
people.
1866 John married Hannah Shacklay. I have the certificate. His age is
given as 38, bachelor. Occupation ‘coachman (gentleman’s)’, and his
father as John Sowerby, headstone cutter, deceased. This seems to link
in with my line’s occupation as stonemason.
1861 he is living at Seaton Hall as a coachman, age 32, birthplace,
Holme Cultram, Cumberland. Looking at an online index for this parish,
there do not appear to have been any Sowerbys there, and I cannot find
him with this information on earlier censuses.
1851 I am not 100 percent confident that I have the same person, but
it seems probable. There is a John Sowerby, age 23, living in a
barrister’s household, working as a groom. This seems a likely career
step to coachman. Then two bits of information that could link him to
my line (although not definitively). His birthplace here is given as
Westward (neighbouring both Dalston and Thursby, given as his mother
and siblings’ birthplace); and he is living in Great Salkeld where his
possible brother, William White, was also living with mother, Elizabeth.
There is a lot of tantalising evidence pointing towards this John
being mine, and I am certainly veering towards accepting it, but there
is a lot that does not quite add up (ages, birthplaces) without being
enough to really disprove it.
It has actually helped to write all this down, but if anyone wants to
join in the conversation, please do!
Ruth
A conversation is one thing.  What is the question?
Basically, does this look like the same person - 'my' John Sowerby? I am
veering 80-90 percent thinking it does, despite the contradictions.

Ruth

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